Ron: The DQ/SQ divide is the intellectual/reality divide. Pirsig says by killing intellectual patterns, morality is served. Chris: This is simply not right at all - I feel. What you are talking about is Zen. Not the MOQ. Furthermore, this, I fear, is exactly the kind of talk that will kill the MOQ. The MOQ is a theory - it isn't the Dynamic Quality it talks about as well we all know, and it can never be. The DQ/SQ divide brings about a new way of interpreting the world - but that's what we do with the MOQ - we interpret. Even the WORDS Dynamic Quality brings us away from it. But it is still better than the SOM. That's why we fight for it.
Ron: I think that is what I stated above. If you read further carefully, I posted: REALITY IS THE 5TH LEVEL!!!! The levels are 4th level, everything is fourth level To human beings. Percieved Reality is a 4th level interpretation of Reality, reality itself is indefinable and formless. Quality aware of itself is limited and illusionary Wrought with paradox if it mistakes it as true. This is the breakthrough of MoQ. Chris continues: If anyone here wishes to "save Quality from intellectualizing" I suggest you try Zen out. It has worked quite well for the last 1400 years or so - but please don't talk about it, don't try to put names on it, and DON'T confuse it with the MOQ. The MOQ is a theory, one that may bring about Better Days for mankind - but that makes it something. Static. Not DQ. Not God. Not Zen. but a Good theory. Ron: I agree, and I believe it is what I said. Quote from Wiki: "Quality", or "value" as described by Pirsig, cannot be defined because it empirically precedes any intellectual constructions. It is the "knife-edge" of experience, known to all. "What distinguishes good and bad writing? Do we need to ask this question of Lysias or anyone else who ever did write anything?" (Plato's Phaedrus, 258d). Likening it with the Tao, Pirsig believes that Quality is the fundamental force in the universe stimulating everything from atoms to animals to evolve and incorporate ever greater levels of Quality. According to the MOQ, everything (including mind, ideas and matter) is a product and a result of Quality. [edit] Static and Dynamic qualities The MOQ divides Quality into two forms: static quality patterns (patterned) and Dynamic Quality (unpatterned). The four patterns of static value as well as Dynamic Quality account exhaustively for all of reality. As the initial (cutting edge) Dynamic Quality become habituated, it turns into static patterns. It is important to note that Pirsig is not proposing a duality: Quality is one, yet manifests itself differently. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
