dmb and all,
I hope this was Squonk's point. I hope Squonk knew this already. This is
why I didn't say anything. Was he, hopefully, dragging this out of somebody to
finally put into words, to post. If not - well? If his real intentions are
brains in vats and some here found it thoughtful and interesting, please...
So, Squonk, Ian, say what the secert interest is already.
I saw it as a point by Squonk to see how far this could go until he saw a
post or posts to show him that alienation is degenerative.
thundering woods,
SA
--- On Thu, 6/26/08, david buchanan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: david buchanan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [MD] moq thought experiement 1.
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 9:03 AM
> Squonkmuse and all:
>
> Squonkmuse said:
> 1. The moq states that DQ is real and moral.
> 1a. The moq states that static patterns block DQ.
> 1c. Proposition B: Some static patterns are more dynamic
> than others.
> 2. Those static patterns which are more dynamic maximize DQ
> and potential for further evolution.
> 3. It is therefore a moral imperative to promote 2.
> 4. Proposition C. Mystical experience (of DQ) does not come
> through the sense organs.
> 5. Sense organs are therefore not required.
> 6. Isolating organic brains from sense experience on an
> industrial scale prevents static patterns from blocking DQ.
>
> dmb says:
> Excellent! That's pure genius! In order to maximize DQ,
> we should also break the eardrums and pluck out the eyes of
> all the babies in the world. I guess we'll have to chop
> off their ears, cut out their tongues and flay them as well.
> With all five of the senses out of the way, they'll
> experience pure DQ for their entire lives, which will
> likely be less than five minutes. Industry could invent
> machines that do this all at once. Think of the jobs
> it'll create!
>
> But seriously, static patterns preserve our world, preserve
> the advances that have been dynamically generated in the
> past and they constitute our very being. Sure, static
> patterns can be too rigid or too dominant, but they are
> entirely necessary.
>
> I think when Pirsig says some static patterns are more
> dynamic than others he's referring to the basic idea
> behind the hierarchy of levels. You know, the four levels
> of static patterns and then the code of art on top of that,
> which more directly involves DQ. Mystical experience,
> evolutionary changes and creativity and the other DQ events
> can't be treated as easily as those ranked static
> levels. All of that static stuff has to be in place and
> more or less functioning before there's any kind of
> developmental growth, innovation, inspiration or whatever.
> It is not that we can do without a mind or sense organs.
> They are necessary but insufficient conditions of this
> "art". I mean, if mystical experience is a
> mind-blowing event and you think its important to have that
> experience, then the first thing to do is get a mind.
>
> Finally, if you want to isolate your brain or put it in a
> vat, you should probably first understand that it's
> gonna hurt some. And it'll probably leave a mark. Fair
> warning.
>
>
>
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