Squonk, I think SA referred to me because I had expressed some views on the morality of the "brain in a vat" ideas ... no idea where you were taking that line of logic though.
I suspect the proposition 5 was really qualified "Sense organs are not required (in order to experience DQ)" maybe. But it was clearly a thought experiment - so equally not sure where DMB was taking his response either. I'd prefer to get back to the "maximization of DQ" thread ... Ian On 6/27/08, Heather Perella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > SA previously: > > ???? I hope this was Squonk's point.? I hope Squonk > > knew this already.? This is > > why I didn't say anything.? Was he, hopefully, dragging > > this out of somebody to > > finally put into words, to post.? If not - well?? If his > > real intentions are > > brains in vats and some here found it thoughtful and > > interesting, please...? So, > > Squonk, Ian, say what the secert interest is already.? > > ???? I saw it as a point by Squonk to see how far this > > could go until he saw a > > post or posts to show him that alienation is degenerative.? > > > Squonk: > > First of all, this experiment is my idea, and i do not > > understand why you have introduced Ian into the matter? > > I welcome Ian's views, and those of everyone who has > > wished to contribute so far, and those of everyone > > participating in the moq.org. > > SA: Ian thought it was interesting. > > > Squonk: > > There is no secret interest for the following reason: I > > don't know what the outcome of the experiment may be. > > This is the point: The point of experimentation is to > > reveal something new. > > That?a?thought experiment?should be?ridiculed or dismissed > > on the grounds that we already know its outcome seems > > rather arrogant to me. > > SA: We can disagree without "arrogance" having to be thrown around. I > thought the experiment to be rather cruel. Who would be the test > subjects? I'm sure you must know some history. People have done all kinds > of tests in the name of science or curiosity, but are they moral? I know of > one test in which babies were not touched by others humans except to give > them basics, such as change the diapers, feed, and provide warmth, but > without human touch, care, the babies either died or developed retardation > diseases. Well, I guess now we know. > > > Squonk: > > Thought is high level value according to the moq, so to > > experiment with thought can be seen as a form of art. > > Thought experiments have the advantage of not harming > > anyone unless they?happen to be?hurt by the very idea of > > the experiment itself, or experimentation in general. > > SA: Sure. I was pointing out the real time experiment, not the > thought-experiment. Go on with your thought experiment, I never disagreed > with this, or thought it harmful. > > SA: > > The current thought experiment is concerned with morals, so > > i can understand why some people may find this > > particular?experiment offensive. > > On a positive note, i will ask you to explain why you > > state: 'I saw it as a point by Squonk to see how far > > this could go until he saw a post or posts to show him that > > alienation is degenerative.' I ask you this because i > > think your contribution will be helpful SA. > > Before you consider answering i should like to make one > > more point: The phrase?'brains in vats' is crude > > shorthand for an arrangement of static patterns which may > > be said to be 'dynamic' in the sense that they > > maximise DQ. > > Such arrangements not only exist, but would seem to be > > moral imperatives based on moq tenets. > > One may therefore view the current experiment as an > > extrapolation. > > > SA: Are you advocating putting brains in vats? Would they come from stem > cell research, newborns, or what? > > > SA > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
