Dmb: How can there be thoughts without a thinker? The same way there can be rain without a rainer. We say "it is raining" without bothering to ask about the "it" because we know that there is nothing doing the raining except the rain itself. There is no agent above or beyond the rain which performs this function. And that's how it is with thinking. Why does there need to be an agent which performs this task? Why does there need to be an entity above and beyond the thinking itself? See, from a certain perspective your question is absurd. It is very much like belief in the rainer behind the rain, or the thunderer beyond the thunder or the grower separate from the growth.
As Gav recently pointed out, the individualism you're advocating here is classic SOM. It is one of the most basic and central ideas in the Modern West since Descartes. It also happens to be Pirsig's central target in ZAMM. He deconstructs it with a vengence. Ron: Damn, talk about capturing it all within a paragraph!!! spirituality, perception and awareness. To me, you have just defined how MoQ relates to all of these. Micah: There can be no thought without a thinker, again as many times before on this board, you use man to establish reality, then remove man to define reality...when man is reality. Ron: Man is reality and reality is man. You run anthropocentrism to the point of solipsism when you follow this line out. What Dmb is saying is that there is no solid concrete entities isolated in space. They are interrelated emergences that manifest through inorganic, organic, biological and social patterns so that the "self" as perceived as isolated is an illusion. What you need to do is get a church of Micah going. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
