anyone familiar with julian jaynes' description of (human) consciousness in 'the origin of consciousness in the breakdown of the bicameral mind'? .....suspect that his def of consciousness is pretty close to what we mean by the intellectual level.
--- On Wed, 16/7/08, Mati Palm-Leis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Mati Palm-Leis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [MD] The Intellectual Gauntlet > To: [email protected] > Received: Wednesday, 16 July, 2008, 10:26 AM > MD Group, > > I find it interesting that we continue to go round and > round (I think it is > now over 7 + years) on this issue of what is the > intellectual level and > what does it mean and how do we discern what an > intellectual value is. > This is a really good question with a variety of possible > solutions and > understandings, some possibilities good, some lacking. I > thought I would > provide some humble thoughts on the matter with the > disclaimer that overall > I personally think Bodvar's approach with S/O divide > being the basis for the > intellectual level (in the static form) being the best one > going. I am > amazed that he is able to endless explain and re-explain > his point of view > with only recently in the past year with some people > "Getting it" to some > degree. That being said here is a series of questions > that might provide a > litmus test to anybody who thinks they (including Bodvar) > are able to better > define or understand what the Intellectual level and > intellectual values > are. > > > > 1. How does your definition or understanding of > intellectual > level/value differentiate the social level from the > intellectual level as > well as social values from intellectual values? > > 2. Given there is a evolutionary process to each of > the levels, what > is a possible historical point in which represents the > likelihood for the > birth of the Intellectual level, and what is the basis for > this > period/event(s) chosen? > > 3. I think (an assumption of mine) that both social > and intellectual > levels use language, but in different ways. Please > describe how each level > utilizes language to sustain its level? > > 4. Given that intellectual values dominate it's > parent level, the > social level, yet must sustain and maintain a relative > harmony with the > social level. Given your definition or understanding of > intellectual levels > how do intellectual values do that? > > > > I have read Lila and much of Pirsig's work and am very > familiar with what > Lila has to say about some of these questions in a general > context. Yet in > Pirsig's letter to Paul Turner he seems to have made > his final contribution > to this question. In a private final correspondence with > him long ago, > about a research question related to this very question of > intellectual > values, he more or less has hung his hat his letter to Paul > Turner in his > addressing the intellectual level. That being said, and > with the deepest > sense of respect and gratitude for Mr. Pirsig, I feel that > we have failed to > really move forward on this question. Again I think > Bodvar's approach, > begins to provide the capacity to approach these, I > believe, essential > questions. Thus providing us with the capacity to move MOQ > forward. > > Sincerely, > > Mati > > > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Start at the new Yahoo!7 for a better online experience. www.yahoo7.com.au Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
