K|rim: > I would say at least with regards to the "values" of science that
they are
among our highest and best. Science values the pursuit of "truth". Science
values knowledge and sharing of knowledge freely. It values integrity and
honesty. It values rigor and logic and questioning the status quo. To the
extent that it does not live up to its own values I think everyone
concerned
is disappointed. Instances of scientific fraud are rare but they reflect
badly and are taken seriously by everyone involved. To the extent that
science has been corrupted by economic interests or by the pursuit of
personal gains, that is tragic.
But in the end scientists are more concerned with the expansion of
knowledge
in their particular fields than with how that knowledge is used. I will
admit this is problematic but as I have said before it is economic and
political interests that govern how knowledge is used. I get the feeling
in
listening to Maxwell that much of his problem with the lack of wisdom
really
comes more from those kinds of corruptions of science than from
scientists.
DM: I really get the feeling that the big romantic round here is probably
you.
Sure you don't see the problems I am seeing, but you need to look closer,
what you say shows me you are not getting it. You don't need to convince
me that the picture is more complex, I get/know that. What I am saying is
good
science is being warped by very bad philosophy and not just excess
commercialism
and specialism, though they are linked. In the end it comes down to how
secularism
is being used not just to push religion out of enquiry but values in total,
so that
an unacknowledged set of values are allowed to rule over us unquestioned.
I suggest reading Maxwell, Charles Taylor and Roy Bhaskar. But if you can't
see any problems that's a whole different debate. What brings you here?
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