Marsha: Paul's letter seemed to be the subject, and, and, and... Well I said I was slow. I'll try it from another angle. I find patterns absolutely fascinating. I can't help that.
Andre: I should have clarified better Marsha. The reason for Paul's letter was that Pirsig gives us a definition of what he means by the intellectual level. I agree with you (you seem to imply this and if I misunderstand you please point out...and forgive) that the MoQ should be seen as a static pattern "representing" an organic whole and that it is therefore difficult to be clear cut about levels and boundaries. But as in any undertaking you have to learn the rules and regulations first and define the boundaries, only then you can start playing with it, but until you do understand these, the undertaking keeps on playing with you. But there is a problem with this definition of Int. level, and this is confirmed through Paul's letter. If the intellectual level is confined to ..."the skilled manipulation of abstract symbols that have no corresponding particular experience and which behave according to rules of their own" as Pirsig says, then there is very little intellectualising going on and 95% of what now is put at that level should disappear. I mean, where does the MoQ fit in this definition? Or, if you want to play with it: if this definition fits into the MoQ it leaves the intellectual level a very lonely place to be in. My previous posts work this out in a little more detail. My conclusion, given this definition, is that we are back with Aristotle again and that therefore Bodvar is correct in arguing that the intellectual level is SOL. BUT!!! I don't agree with this (i.e. intellect is much more than that definition allows for) and fail, again, to understand what Pirsig is getting at. This is my short-coming because Pirsig is much smarter than me. But I would like this clarified once and for all and in such a way that it leaves room for DQ. Andre Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
