Andre,
At 03:12 AM 10/20/2008, you wrote:
Marsha:
Paul's letter seemed to be the subject, and, and, and... Well I said
I was slow. I'll try it from another angle. I find patterns
absolutely fascinating. I can't help that.
Andre:
I should have clarified better Marsha. The reason for Paul's letter was
that Pirsig gives us a definition of what he means by the intellectual
level.
I agree with you (you seem to imply this and if I misunderstand you please
point out...and forgive) that the MoQ should be seen as a static pattern
"representing" an organic whole and that it is therefore difficult to be
clear cut about levels and boundaries.
But as in any undertaking you have to learn the rules and regulations first
and define the boundaries, only then you can start playing with it, but
until you do understand these, the undertaking keeps on playing with you.
But there is a problem with this definition of Int. level, and this is
confirmed through Paul's letter. If the intellectual level is confined to
..."the skilled manipulation of abstract symbols that have no corresponding
particular experience and which behave according to rules of their own" as
Pirsig says, then there is very little intellectualising going on and 95% of
what now is put at that level should disappear.
Yup! Somewhere RMP also states that the Intellectual Level is newly emerged.
I mean, where does the MoQ fit in this definition? Or, if you want to play
with it: if this definition fits into the MoQ it leaves the intellectual
level a very lonely place to be in.
My previous posts work this out in a little more detail. My conclusion,
given this definition, is that we are back with Aristotle again and that
therefore Bodvar is correct in arguing that the intellectual level is SOL.
BUT!!! I don't agree with this (i.e. intellect is much more than that
definition allows for) and fail, again, to understand what Pirsig is getting
at. This is my short-coming because Pirsig is much smarter than me. But I
would like this clarified once and for all and in such a way that it leaves
room for DQ.
Maybe understanding the nature of patterns, in general, will give
light to what is an Intellectual static pattern of value. Maybe not.
Find a spov. I like zebra because of the black and white
strips. There is a visual aspect to patterns. I think. It is
certainly more than language.
Marsha
.
.
The Universe is uncaused, like a net of jewels in which each is a
reflection of all the others in a fantastic, interrelated harmony without end.
.
.
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