Marsha:
The pattern of a tree is influenced by the patterns of the sun and
the patterns of water source. Externally there is no delineation
between tree, sun, water source, and other conditions.
woods:
Externally there is delineation. That's the sun. This is a tree. We
disagree here.
Marsha:
All patterns represent mental definitions of what is
occurring. Remove all definitions and etc., and you have direct
experience prior to mental activity. Seems to me.
woods:
Yes. You can mentally come up with patterns about the patterns
found in nature. There are patterns valuing outside our mentality. Your basic
point seems to be patterns are only mental and everything outside our
mental constructs have no patterns. I think nature is full of patterns.
When you want to define these patterns, then your defining them.
Marsha:
We only know our patterns via our defining boundaries. We designate
things like trees separating them into conventional entities from the
Dynamic Quality.
woods:
I don't know. It seems obvious. That's a tree. This is the sun. I don't
think I'm mentally constructing a tree or sun. The sun and a tree have
patterns that don't rely on my mental constructs. This is all a matter
of perspective. I totally understand what your saying. I just don't agree
with it. Doesn't make me right or you wrong. It's how you want to see
this world. That's fine.
Marsha:
NO, NO, NO. Patterns are mental. External Nature is process with
no things.
woods:
Mental is process too. SOM would probably classify what your saying here
as patterns/process. I don't find it to be that exclusive. Patterns are in
nature, too.
Mental is process too.
Marsha:
>From dq emerge mental patterns that can be categorized into
inorganic, biological, social & intellectual levels.
woods:
Sure. But also I find inorganic, biological, social, and intellectual
levels
are argued to be values this world has that are not mental as well. That's why
I don't like the level system to become something that is to be formalized.
It's an analogy, but it has holes.
Marsha:
I feel like poor Bo must feel. What seems perfectly clear to me,
nobody else gets. It might be that I am closer to a truth, or it
might be that my view is peculiar to my configuration of organic,
biological, social and intellectual patterns. Or it could be that I
am mentally running loop-to-loops.
Painting, that's most important. For me. I think...
Here's a question. What is the difference between seeing some
natural phenomena and recognizing it as a zebra, and seeing a picture
of a zebra and recognizing it as a zebra?
woods:
I don't like to make it so complicated. A zebra walks on the savannah, then
you recognize this zebra. A picture of a zebra is a picture of a zebra. If
you recognize a picture of a zebra then your recognize a picture of a zebra. I
really don't see what your trying to do here. It's seems to be an
over-complication.
But hey, if you like the way your painting this, then nothing wrong. We can
disagree. It's not the end of the world.
Marsha:
And what is the difference between those two and laying in my bed at night and
think
about a zebra?
woods:
Well, now your thinking about a zebra.
Marsha:
What about dreaming about a zebra?
woods:
Now your dreaming about a zebra. Your giving the answer. Don't see the
question.
Marsha:
Seems to me there is some pattern that represents a generalized
description/definition/image of zebra that is somehow overlaid onto
all these experiences.
woods:
Yeah. When you intellectualize. I still find a zebra is a zebra even
without intellectualizing.
Marsha:
I can't paint 24 hours a day. To bad, huh?
Someday I must paint a zebra. Maybe like Margaret painted a
Corvette. Or maybe on canvas. Anybody want a tattoo?
woods:
I woke up in the mood for colorful, lovely poetry today. I think
I'll read, and feel some.
good discussion.
Doesn't mean we are at a stand still. Don't see why we would need
to find a need to convince one or the other who's right, who's wrong. We
can simply discuss our perspective on certain topics from time to time.
lovely,
woods
..
..
The Universe is uncaused, like a net of jewels in which each is a
reflection of all the others in a fantastic, interrelated harmony without end.
..
..
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