At 03:01 AM 11/15/2008, you wrote:
Marsha.
14 Nov. you wrote:
Ham:
> > > Despite the confusion, it's apparent that at least three of us
> > > understand that the "patterning" of Value is conceptual, which is
> > > to say that objective phenomena are the intellectual constructs of
> > > value perception.
> >Bo:
> >No confusion anywhere. The patterns being conceptual!!! Christ,
> >what's not conceptual in the sense of being conveyed by language?
Marsha:
> While I understand spovs to be conceptual, no way do I understand that
> to mean they are confined to language. Images may be part of any
> spov, or there may be an auditory part of a spov. What do you think?
Methinks that concepts (ideas) belongs to intellect's subjective realm
different from its objective one. Nothing wrong with the intellectual
level if understood in its MOQ context, namely that its subjective and
objective halves are static parts of an aggregate, none having the old
SOM-ish significance. But when you point to spovs as conceptual yet
not confined to language, it sounds like you are in a no-man's-land
between SOM and MOQ. In SOM language is manipulation of
concepts and as we are "suspended in language" everything is
"conceptual". In MOQ (that doesn't have any S/O distinction outside
intellect) language is merely a social pattern that intellect adapted for
it's own S/O purpose ... and the MOQ now uses for its DQ/SQ
purpose. Yet, your assertion that the spovs are "conceptual" sounds
as different from something non-conceptual - in a metaphysical sense
- and that SOM is back.
Back to square one.
Bo
Bo,
From Quality, static patterns of value emerge. Static patterns of
value are conventional, conceptual constructs which the MOQ has
divided into four categories. As far as how it sounds to you:
"The idea that the world is composed of nothing but moral value
sounds impossible at first."
"Of course it sounds peculiar at first and awkward and unnecessary to
say that hydrogen and oxygen form water because it is moral to do so."
"It sounds quite blasphemous to put religion and insanity on an equal
footing for comparison, but his point was not to undercut religion,
only to illuminate insanity.
"This may sound as though a purpose of the Metaphysics of Quality is
to trash all subject-object thought but that's not true."
"In the Metaphysics of Quality 'causation' is a metaphysical term
that can be replaced by 'value.' To say that 'A causes B' or to say
that 'B values precondition A' is to say the same thing. The
difference is one of words only. Instead of saying 'A magnet causes
iron filings to move toward it,' you can say 'Iron filings value
movement toward a magnet.' Scientifically speaking neither statement
is more true than the other. It may sound a little awkward, but
that's a matter of linguistic custom, not science. "
Marsha
.
.
The Universe is uncaused, like a net of jewels in which each is a
reflection of all the others in a fantastic, interrelated harmony without end.
.
.
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
