Mati said to dmb: Hmmm.... I think that Bodvar's situation is similar to Pirsig when he first stated on this journey. He was alone and the majority of the academic world steeped in SOM discredited Pirsig as well. I would suggest that academic bully pulpit isn't where the truth is.
dmb says:Yea, I know what you mean and Bo certainly scores big points on tenacity. But you know what, people who are obsessed with UFOs also claim to be lonely geniuses doing battle against the closed-minded scientific community. Even more importantly, I've discovered that there are more than just a few anti-SOM thinkers within philosophy and within the academic community. Mysticism is much tougher to sell there but Bo isn't buying it either and it's pretty clear to me that this is the true source of his distortions. The failure to take that crucial element into the picture is exactly what has him thinking that the distinction between thought and DQ is the same as the distinction between subjectivity and objectivity. Also, I think its a bit unfair to characterize academic standards as some kind of bullying tactic. I realize that goes beyond your complaint about bully pulpits. I have no doubt that these standards can sometimes act as a road block to ideas that later come to be seen as perfectly legitimate and that this is a genuine problem but I also think that we need academic standards to guard against all kinds of nonsense and more generally against intellectual incompetence. Mati also said:...I would caution you with the broad discrediting brush you use to suggest Bodvar has not brought anything to the table. The fact remains I can't think of anybody who has stirred the pot better, on the issue of intellect, than Bodvar. ...I personally believe that his SOL has not been knocked out yet. But keep dishing it out. :-) dmb says:Oh, yea. My discrediting brush inadvertently tarred you as well as Bo. Sorry, but the archives (and sincerity) won't allow me to take it back. In fact, I very much want my objections to be on record because I think Bo misleads people, especially new-comers as Dan pointed out. By the way, it's really great to hear from you and Dan. I wish both of you guys would post more often. And I want to say thanks to Bo for his generous comment about my motive being genuine frustration. It's true. And I'm sorry for using the word "delusional". The issue is not his mental health but rather an excess of tenacity. That's exactly what I find so frustrating. Legitimate philosophical discussion dies where there's no possibility of persuasion. In this case, Bo seems quite impervious to any argument. Even when it comes to the quotes of relevant philosophers like Pirsig, Dewey and James, he dismisses it as SOM simply because they're read in University courses when in fact they are all quite opposed to SOM. Anyway, I don't want to discredit Bo as a person. But his ideas about the MOQ? I think they really ought to be discredited and I won't apologize for trying. Finally, I want to say thanks to Dan. I have learned quite a lot over the last several years and it's very gratifying to know that old-timers like him have noticed that I've changed my tune as a result. I even disagree with my former self on some fairly important points. Naturally, I like to think there's been growth and progress, not just change. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Hotmail®…more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_022009 Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
