Ron, Thanks for the posting, it gives a lot to think about. One of the issues is that of definitions being culturally defined. Here I might suggest that prior to SOM that was an exclusively true statement. However after the advent of SOM it is not only culture that has the only capacity to define. I would go further to suggest that over the centuries that with reality, now being defined by the capacity brought forth by SOM, ie. things, events, observations of the life around us are no longer defined solely on the mystic reality. There is the objective reality that can define things no longer tethered by the culture of the social level. Here before SOM if you asked if lightening is real yes, it is a tool of the mystic gods. After SOM if lightening is real then you can say yes based on the objective experience. I have long believed that the basis for the philosophy is reflective practice. SOM provided a new capacity to reflect world around us, I suppose that you could suggest that this new capacity is a culture itself, and in that wouldn't argue the point. I know that many dismiss the idea but I find myself interested in what is the driving force that brought SOM into being, it is that age old experience of looking into mirror and questioning what is there.
Ron: > The acknowledged earmarks > of abstract thought in our culture is defined by the Greek inventions > of reason and analytic. > What this means is that the definition of intellect is contextual and may > only be very broadly generalized as abstract thought or the manipulation > of symbols as RMP stated in a universal understanding of the term. Mati: I want to say, as I have said many times before, I respect RMP work and his attempt to define intellect as the father of MOQ. But I think it holds as many problems as it does truths. The early Greeks and others had reason and analytic thinking. Some could suggest that other cultures had similar reason and analytic tools in their cultures long before SOM. The litmus test in my mind is that when you ask if these tools are real they find themselves tethered to social/mystic level. The early Greeks were really looking for a way to understand the world without the social tether. It is only with SOM is that tether broken in which it creates it own new tether. And that tether was broken with the advent of MOQ. Ron, > Since we may only really know the human expereince this broad term only > rightly is attributed to the human condition which limits the infinite regress > of the definition skirting any charge of anthropomorphism. Mati: I am missing you here, but I always find the idea of anthropomorphism alway entertaining. :-) Ron: > Bo on the other hand, holds the Greek cultural definition as THE universal > definition > of THE human condition, with SOL positing that DQ/SQ is THE fundemental > reality in objective > terms. Mati: Hmmm.... I would be interested in Bo's take of that. I will confess that these nuances with could be very pivotal in the whole understanding of SOL and MOQ. But the genius of MOQ is its simplicity. From my very lay persons perspective on philosophy it would take some time for me to digest. Ron: > I think any serious physicist would laugh at the idea, how would Moq better > describe > the oscillations in fields of energy any better than probability calculations > and theory? > How would this idea create a clearer understanding than the calculations used > to > define and account for their observed behaviour? it can't. In fact all this > has already > been achieved within the past 40yrs, the problems faced now are testing these > calculations and theories. Mati: This is an area that I certainly am not qualified to even speculate a reasonable answer. The question I will naively ask is what is the importance of any metaphysical description of "oscillations in fields of energy?" Ron: > I have credited Bodvar in the past for pointing this out, but he persists in > his own > dream of granduer. Mati: I have known Bodvar personally over many years. His "dream of grandeur" is not, to the best of my knowledge, an ego trip. He certainly has a personality and tenacity that we all have come to know, but his personal mission is not of personal gratification, but rather a idea that he thinks is worth fighting for. Mati Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
