Hi Joe, I agree that Mystic is a word that can be used in a Magic kind of way. There are some people that claim to experience a greater Unity than others. I don't believe this for a minute, it is all just a state of mind.. When I use mystic, I mean an interpretation that is based on immediate experience and doesn't need additional words or logic or math or justification by whatever cause-effect reasoning is deemed necessary. When I compare physicists and mystics, I mean just that different approach.. It is certainly nothing special in either case. By defining Quality, we leave everything else out which by definition (like that?) does not work. It is useful, however, to see how different approaches may mean (whatever that means..) the same thing. It is by unifying all of this that perhaps a common understanding can be reached which can then lead to other things (evolution of thought, or perhaps thought has no evolution). Personal enlightenment is constantly changing and never the end. It is the path of enlightenment (change itself) which is in question with all of this discussion. Is there an easier way?
Cheers, Willblake2 On Apr 3, 2009, at 12:48:22 PM, "Joseph Maurer" <[email protected]> wrote: From: "Joseph Maurer" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MD] Chance v. Dynamic Quality Date: April 3, 2009 12:48:22 PM PDT To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Hi Markhsmit, Your happiness is contagious. I don't like the word "mystic." It is too close to magic, or imaginary. I prefer "instinctive" which gives body to the word "undefined", and makes training like education, and levels of DQ useful. How can you train a mystic? "Evolution" remains undefined and I have to appeal to order to use DQ, which requires a further evolution. IMO "Absolute (quality)" is a metaphor from social awareness, I am king! Intellectual quality is undefined at the social level. It seems I have to posit "personal enlightenment" to reveal the existence DQ beyond intellect. Joe On 4/2/09 5:52 PM, "markhsmit" <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi all, > > I have been happily reading Joe's use of active, passive, and neutral, to help > paint Quality or its subsets. Another way to look at manifestation, is how > the Vedantins did. Our misperception is a result of veiling, projecting, and > revealing. Scientifically, misperception (illusion) is through time, space, > and causation. Modern physics is using equations to break through the > misperception to show that perhaps The absolute (Quality) is changeless, > infinite, and undivided, which shows through because of its revealing powery. > According to John Dobbs (http://quanta-gaia.org/dobson/EquationsOfMaya.html), > which I read a while back and am paraphrasing, Absolute reality can be > interpreted by what shows through (or is behind) our apparitional view.. > Mystics and physicists are both describing the same thing using different > languages. > > Willblake2 > > > On Apr 2, 2009, at 3:44:08 PM, "Joseph Maurer" <[email protected]> wrote: > On Tuesday 2 April Krimel writes to Joe: > > <snip> >> [Krimel] >> There seems to be a math epidemic. I suspect that your equations >> might mesh with Andre's somehow but I don't see how attaching >> numbers supports the idea of an undefined DQ. Quality is undefined. >> DQ is change. > > High all, > > Is a manifestation the same as order? Quality is DQ/SQ. DQ represents > order, evolution, SQ represents a manifestation within an order. Logic is > tricky in an individual manifestation and we have courts of law. > > Mathematics carries an aura for logic which is unassailable except for its > premises. Figures don¹t lie, but liars can figure. I want to make a > distinction between a description of an individual DQ/SQ moral order, and a > manifestation within that order which is also DQ/SQ. > > The individual responds to law. I manifest in three ways active, passive, > neutral. Laws for an individual being are laws for manifestations. I don¹t > get put in prison for breaking a law of evolution. I live I die! > > Evolution is an order in existence! Behavior is an order of manifestation, > active, passive or neutral. Consciousness is DQ at the social level. SOL is > DQ at the Intellectual level. > > At the social level DQ is an undefined social aspect of an evolutionary > order in existence. The result is a law of order with the appeal to 4 or 7 > laws. I manifest as lawful, unlawful, or biding my time (asleep) at the > individual level. > > Joe > > > On 4/1/09 5:48 PM, "Krimel" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> [Krimel] >> OK but I don't think DQ is undefined. Quality is undefined. I think >> Pirsig conflated the two out of enthusiasm and others follow out of >> blind obedience. >> >> [Joe] >> [+1 (defined SQ) +0 (undefined DQ)] -1 (defined level of evolution) = 0. In >> a MOQ manifestation in a level of evolution, the individual is negated and >> undefined DQ is in an order of morality, existence. >> >> [Joe] >> If DQ is defined +1 (defined DQ) + 1 defined SQ = 2 outside of order.. Who >> knows what evolution means with 2 in 0 order. >> >> +0 undefined DQ +1 defined SQ + 0 order = 1 individual manifestation, the >> order is unnamed. >> >> [Krimel] >> There seems to be a math epidemic. I suspect that your equations might mesh >> with Andre's somehow but I don't see how attaching numbers supports the idea >> of an undefined DQ. Quality is undefined. DQ is change. >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
