Hello everyone ---------------------------------------- > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:19:00 +0100 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [MD] Chance v. Dynamic Quality > > Marsha to Andre: > Oh yes, of course, you were being very serious. I don't want anyone > to suffer. Sorry. - Marsha > > Andre: > Maybe I am too serious sometimes Marsha...I glance at your conversation with > Ham... why should I be serious about concepts? If, since, in the run of this > Discuss there appears to be a consensus on the notion that we are all > intellectual constructs...thus ideas in each and everyone's 'mind' and > therefore mere conceptualisations...why should I really bother? > Why should I concern myself with SPOV's when they are ONLY intellectuallised > constructs? A 'useful' way of conceptualising... . > Ha, if I do not like the construct well, I'll just 'change my mind' and make > the world, and my own conceptualised patterns of it and in it, more amenable > to whatever?
Dan: Please forgive me for barging into your conversation... I have a few thoughts to share: Years ago when I first broke into real estate my Broker and old friend Anne M. gave me a copy of "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill. I threw it on my bookshelf to read later. As there was already quite a stack of "to be read later" books on my shelf, it got shunted to the back. My first year in real estate was not as successful as I would've liked. Anne called me into her office at the start of my second year and - after going over my sales for the previous year - asked me if I'd read the book she gave me. I had to admit I did not. She wondered why; I had no answer other than laziness. I went home that day, pulled the book down off the shelf, dusted it off, and opened it up. What an eye opener! A lot of the stuff Dr. Hill talked about in the book was stuff I already knew but had never taken the time to put into action. I read the book through, and then re-read it. I still refer to it constantly even today. My second year in real estate was a little more successful than the first, and my third year even more so. I had started my own brokerage by then and had agents working for me. Of course it was during the "boom" years of the late 1990s/early 2000s but that had nothing to do with my success. I had simply decided to be successful. In other words, I had changed my mind and made the world more amenable to my goals. I've had ups and downs since then, like everyone I suppose, but that shift in my mindset has enabled me to go with the flow, so to speak. > Is this, philosophical idealism, the MoQ? Dan: I think to focus exclusively on philosphical idealism is to do a disservice to the MOQ as that is only a part of it. I think what Robert Pirsig is saying is that as a culture we're more prone to think in terms of the materialistic to the denigration of subjective values. > > I think, Mr.Pirsig has presented us with an experience called the MoQ which > has taken us as close to reality as no one has ever done in the history of > Western thought: DQ/SQ. > > We are not half aware of the implications/possibilities this is handing out > to us. We need to radically reinvestigate our SOM interpretations of > 'intellect' and 'intellectualising'. Dan: Some of us are intent on doing just that. However, when alternative theories like SOL sidetrack the discussions back into subject/object thinking, it becomes a matter of one step forward and two steps back. It is too bad, especially for the newer participants. > > Is the MoQ just another interesting philosophical painting hanging in our > intellectual gallery? Dan: The MOQ is whatever you think it is. And that doesn't mean thinking in the terms of subject and object as Bo would have it. The MOQ (for me) opens up marvelous new vistas that are obscured by the old ways (SOM) and so it is very disheartening for some of us "old-timers" to continue arguing over such a meaningless point of view. > > I am no expert, no philosopher, mathematician or logician. But as DQ/SQ I do > know what I see, hear, feel, taste, smell , intuit, imagine. and experience. Dan: You know on account of the culture you're suspended within. We all are suspended in culture. There's no way out. But once we're aware of it, we can adjust our thinking. There are no subjects, there are no objects. The world is too big... it doesn't change. But if we change our mindset, everything changes. Or so I think, Dan _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009 Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
