On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 6:51 PM, ARLO J BENSINGER JR <[email protected]> wrote:
> [Sharath earlier] > I hope the US never goes down that path and maintain merit as the only > standard > for securing a job. > > [Arlo comments] > The problem with this is that it has not historically been that way. If > "merit" > alone was the only standard for securing employment, programs such as > "affirmative action" would never have been implemented. Believe me, I dream > of > a day when "merit" is the only measure. > > This gets back to the statement made by WillBlake that minorities should > "buck > up, stop whining, and earn respect". How long does a society wait while > some > minority is denied opportunity generation after generation before it does > something? Never? > Sharath now: Well, I think with every generation there has been more & more acceptance of minorities into the main stream and I don't think affirmative action has anything to do with it..at least not in India. I mean in my generation there are plenty of inter-caste weddings and people don't really care about race or religion as much as my parent's generation. I agree historically merit was never the standard and I don't think it will ever be. I mean most human decisions are based on emotions and people are biased. I don't know whether you have lived in a foreign culture but believe me I've lived in so many different parts of the world..I don't think people are all that open to accepting outsiders. Of course in my personal experience the US is definitely open in absorbing different cultures..and people are much more curious. In other places people hold onto their cultural past and biases way too much. You please stay in India, Russia or China...and then tell me how difficult it can be for an outsider. I believe one reason why the US is open and curious in absorbing new ideas from different cultures is due to the fact that it is relatively a new nation and like the famous buddhist saying "To learn something you need to empty your cup" has an empty cup...Anyway I digress.. I guess the real division in any society is rich vs poor. Now, wealth creation is a whole different ball game. Some people inherit large sums of money, some other work hard and despite many odds succeed others are just lucky to be in the right time and place. I mean govt can provide free education but can't resort to lowering standards of merit to bring them up. I believe education is the key and I agree it's more complex than this. > > I had a friend once propose an abolition of affirmative action, but replace > it > with a "fair disclosure act" that would require all business to label their > products outright as to their policies and handling of minorities. If Pepsi > wanted to be not hire blacks, then all its soda should contain a label that > reads "Pepsi refuses to hire blacks and other minorities". Let the > consumers > decide then if they wish to support such business. Are you a restauranteer > who > wishes he could deny serving blacks? Fine, then you are required to put a > sign > on your front door that says "This restaurant denies serving blacks". > > In any event, the reality is that before affirmative action, qualified > blacks > simply could not ever expect to get ahead, no matter how hard they worked, > and > there was no evidence that this "trend" was going to change. Does > affirmative > action reach too far? Likely. But I am all ears to hear what you think an > alternative solution would be. > > [Sharath] > I do believe US is one of the most moral correct countries wrt upholding > human > rights. > > [Arlo] > And I agree, mostly, although our strength should come from knowing where > and > when we've erred. The "human rights" you speak of, btw, were born only > recently > and as the result of a major cultural battle. Don't forget that until as > recently as fifty years ago, blacks were forced to drink from separate > water > fountains, had to ride in the back of public buses, were frequent targets > of > violence, and were really not considered "equal". We are really only one or > two > generations from that. > > Sharath: Of course I agree there was some struggle and everything is cool now :). You guys elected a black man to the highest office. And I agree people who have seen the discrimiation[ the people who were denied riding the buses etc] will naturally be skeptical of any kind of progress. See I'm new to your country [2yrs] but I did live in Texas, Kansas, Chicago and now in California[ 3 times laid off :p]...However everywhere I go, the one thing that amuses me is how the black man is always waiting to sense a hint of discrimination in every interaction with the white man..while, the white man is almost always overly careful.. I think this situation is unnatural..The white man doesn't know whether what he really feels for black man is the *correct emotion and the black man doesn't know whether the white man's gesture is genuine. Everything is so much under scrutiny that people are under pressure to act abnormally normal. I think there is too much tension between blacks and whites eventhough *most of the current yougn generation don't really care what the other person looks like and just want to live their lives. Don't know if what I wrote makes any sense at all..I'm sorry my english is only so good. thank you -Sharath Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
