Hi Matt I'm in lurking mode, but this was so interesting that it deserves a comment.
You wrote: > Socrates came upon the Greek scene at a very important point in its > cultural evolution. For some years, leisured aristocrats had begun > popping up around the Aegean Sea and composing themselves in a manner > that had previously been unheard of-our first intellectuals. Right, ".. our first intellectuals". They represented the emergence of the intellectual LEVEL ... in this part of the world. Could not agree more > They for the most part had begun speculating about the way reality as a > whole functioned Also correct. "Speculating about the way reality as a whole functioned". This IS intellect because it implies that reality is an objective entity independent of what humankind subjectively thinks about it. What became SOM's "nature". > though they did occasionally drift into the way humanity, > specifically, functioned (humans being a natural enough subject within > the purview of "reality"). These drifts didn´t pick up speed until > democracy had taken hold in Greece. The hold of democracy on Athens > produced a shift in the educational institutions of Greece. The > existence of a citizen class in Athens created a need for a means of > educating them, one that surpassed the means that existed for the needs > of fickle aristocracies. For the first time in history, an opportunity > was created in which people could live on their wits. > These were the Sophists, the first professional > intellectuals, and, like most people I know, they soon > began talking about > themselves and what they do. More agreement, the Sophists were part and parcel of the budding intellectual level - of SOM - namely its subjectivists. "Man the measure" was their credo that opposed Socrates' and Plato's objectivism, that truth was independent of man. What you write here and in your blog may be correct, but it clutters MOQ's level picture which is that before these last 500 years BC - before the intellectual LEVEL - the social LEVEL ruled. An era that had lasted since time immemorial with no "speculations about reality as a whole ..etc" rather a mythological - magical - existence with no definite border between the immortals and the mortals. But Matt, if you are "afflicted" by Pirsig why not apply the MOQ? Or is it some tactics to introduce it "undercover". Anyway, at least we agree about the Greeks as the coming of the intellectual level in "our" culture. No small achievement. Bo Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
