Re: [MD] Protestant Capitalism

[MarshaV]

Ron:
Bo posits, that MoQ evolutionarily emerges from the s/o intellectual level.
He maintains that DQ/SQ is the way reality REALLY is divided.

Marsha:
Well, maybe that is Bo's ferryboat.

Ron:
He thinks he can solve the SOM dilemma by redefining SOM terms
and replacing them with MoQ terms. When the problem really lies in the
intellectual conceptualization of entities as what "is".

Marsha:
If only replacing language was so easy.  Hahaha!

I didn't come to that understanding here.  I had 
to pack up my little patterns and visit 
Buddhaland.  Where with great effort, more than a 
few tears and some stomach aches I GOT 
IT.  Unfortunately, my understanding is still in 
the realm of intellectual understanding to 
varying degrees.  At least I am out of the box 
and have replaced the TiTs-perspective with the 
dependent-origination (Pratityasamutpada) 
understanding.  I still know very little, but I 
know I can never go back...  And it shouldn't have to be that haphazard.

(Wow, it's amazing, even to me, how willing I am to make a fool of myself.)

But, regardless, I think what Bo is suggesting has value.


Marsha










At 09:19 AM 5/21/2009, you wrote:
Marsha, Bo posits, that MoQ evolutionarily 
emerges from the s/o intellectual level. He 
maintains that DQ/SQ is the way reality REALLY 
is divided. He thinks he can solve the SOM 
dilemma by redefining SOM terms and replacing 
them with MoQ terms. When the problem really 
lies in the intellectual conceptualization of 
entities as what "is". -Ron 
________________________________ From: X Acto 
<xa...@rocketmail.com> To: 
moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 
2009 8:54:14 AM Subject: Re: [MD] Protestant 
Capitalism Marsha, But that is what Bo is 
saying, that only through intellect may we come 
to the MoQ. -Ron 
________________________________ From: MarshaV 
<marsh...@charter.net> To: 
moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 
2009 8:50:59 AM Subject: Re: [MD] Protestant 
Capitalism Ron, I'm talking, like Bo, of the 
explanatory strength of the MOQ.  It seems to 
me that if it is clearly stated that the 
Intellectual Level is of subject/object patterns 
it becomes very clear that dwelling in the 
Intellectual Level (no how exalted it seems) is 
not going to get you to the MOQ point-of-view. 
Marsha At 08:43 AM 5/21/2009, you wrote: > 
Marsha, I think the point is clinging to that 
entrapment. It takes a bravery and a 
fearlessness to overcome it. As the Sophists say 
and many others, excellence is a practice, like 
the entrapment. We were taught to practice s/o 
over a long period of growth like wise we must 
teach ourselves and reinforce excellence over a 
long peroid of growth. The impossiblity of 
escape disolves with the practice of excellence. 
I have found the four agreements works well 
within the four levels of excellence and 
reinforces their meaning. Ruiz says that by 
slowly breaking the agreements made with the 
small self and replacing them with the 
agreements of Quality, through practice we will 
be free of it. they are:   BE IMPECCABLE WITH 
YOUR WORD Speak with integrity. Say only what 
you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against 
yourself or to gossip about others. Use the 
power of your word in the direction of truth and 
love.  DON’T TAKE ANYTHITHING PERSONALLY 
Nothing others do is because of you. What others 
say and do is a projection of their own reality, 
their own dream. When you are immune to the 
opinions of others, you won’t be the victim 
of needless sufferinging.  DON’T MAKE 
ASSUMPTIONS Find the courage to ao ask questions 
and to express what you really want. Communicate 
with others as clearly as you can to avoid 
misunderstandings, sadness, and drama. With just 
this one agreement, you can completely transform 
your life.  ALWAYS DO YOUR BEST Your best is 
going to change from moment to moment; it will 
be different when you are healthy as 
opposed  to sick. Under any circumstance, 
simply do your best, and you will avoid 
self-judgment, self-abuse, and regret. 
      ________________________________ 
From: MarshaV <marsh...@charter.net> To: 
moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 
2009 5:50:48 AM Subject: Re: [MD] Protestant 
Capitalism Ron, Don't you think Bo has a valid 
point.  It seems impossible to breakaway from 
the subject/object chatter which is entrapment. 
Marsha At 04:17 AM 5/21/2009, you 
wrote: >Ron > >On 19 May you wrote: > > > Are 
you saying that Platt is on firm MoQ ground by 
being > > anti-intellectual? > >Yes, the 
greatest obstacle is the 4th. level because - 
prior to the MOQ >- it was 
reality  itself  (like the 3rd and 2nd. 
and 1st have been in their >time) Platt isn't 
"anti-intellectual", but sees the 4th. level 
for >what it is, >namely a static level that 
refuses a dynamic pattern to form a new >reality 
The MOQ is of course no static level, but in 
this particular >context it has a level-like 
relationship with intellect. > > > Also, are you 
saying that ALL intellectual patterns are more 
moral than > > social patterns? > >Yes, 
intellect is the highest static level, yet the 
mere knowledge of the >dynamic/static context 
(that the upper level is dependent the 
lower >level for its own good) prevents 
intellect from undermining its social >base. The 
big question is if it prevents the MOQ from 
undermining its >own base - intellect - I mean 
if it can go on after being reduced to a >static 
level? (footnote). > > > Essentially you are 
saying that no one knows intellectual quality 
unless > > they subscribe to your SOL. 
-Ron > >That's right, but it isn't really "my 
SOL" In ZAMM's proto-moq there is >just one 
"static" (classic) level - the SOM - but it's 
also called >"intellect" >so it was clearly 
Phaedrus's original idea. And in LILA there are 
many >indications that SOM is no foreign matter 
that has polluted intellect, but >the very 
article. > >IMO > >Bo > > >Footnote: >This is 
the "intellect joining forces with biology to 
quell society" >phenomenon  brought one notch 
up. The MOQ joining forces with >social value to 
quell intellect. This would be a disaster and 
why I at >times wonder about the MOQ. It's valid 
as .... but is it GOOD? >Perhaps better let it 
continue in its harmless "academical" vein, 
letting . >Anthony McWatt and David Buchanan be 
the administrators of 
Pirsig's >legacy. > > > > > >Moq_Discuss mailing 
list >Listinfo, Unsubscribing 
etc. >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_d 
 iscuss-moqtalk.org >Archives: >http://lists.moq 
iscuss-moqtalk.org >Archives: >http://lists.moqta 
 lk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >http 
lk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >http:/ 
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inorganic, biological, social and intellectual, 
static patterns of value responding to Dynamic 
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.
_____________

The self is a thought-flow of ever-changing, 
interrelated and interconnected, inorganic, 
biological, social and intellectual, static 
patterns of value responding to Dynamic Quality.

.
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