John said: I am honestly trying to be non-pedantic here Krimel, but "Concepts are static" and "conceptual systems are organic; they change and grow" contradict. Unless "concepts" are completely different than "conceptual systems", which doesn't make any sense to me seeing as how every concept includes some systemic matrix for meaning and every conceptual system is also a concept, in and of itself.
Krimel replied: Concepts are relatively simple, like words. Conceptual systems are more like words combined into sentences and larger patterns of meaning. Conceptual systems can be formal even hierarchical like the periodic table or biological taxonomy. But more often than not they are just networks of ideas and patterns of association. As in; "red" is a concept I associate with roses and apples and cherries and fire trucks. dmb says: Hmmm. It's interesting to watch you do this to somebody else, Krimel. John has asked you about the apparent contradiction in your claim that concepts are static while conceptual systems change and grow and yet your reply does not address this contradiction. Your reply isn't even relevant to his question. Even if I pretend it's not an answer to any question but just take it as a statement, it still makes no sense. I mean, isn't it true that all concepts exist within a larger conceptual web? Concepts, even the simplest concepts, can only have meaning within a larger context. John was making this same point but that objection didn't have any impact on your reply either. To call your answer "lame" would be too generous. This answer is less than weak. It's non-existent. [Krimel] You are a deeply confused person there Dave. Static and Dynamic are not absolute terms. There is nothing that is completely static and unchanging any more than anything is completely dynamic. An example of the later can be seen in the programming of the iPod. It was programmed to play tunes from a play list randomly. But the result was that too often the same tune or tunes got play twice or too close together. This gave people the impression that the tunes were not being played randomly. The programmers had to alter the programming to make the playlist "seem" more random even though they were less so. Order or static patterns appear spontaneously in chaotic systems. We build concepts by abstracting regular patterns from the flux of continuous ever changing experience. Experience is continuous undivided and dynamic. We reflect on experience via our conceptual patterns. We construct concepts as discrete ideas plucked from the continuous stream of experience. But concepts are never completely static, rather they represent a kind of range of overlapping experience. So that if I say "red," you have some sense that I mean a particular range of the visual spectrum. "Red" is static to the extent that we agree on the range of the spectrum but dynamic to the extent that the particular wave length in question remains in doubt and whether the doubt matters. To the extent that it matters I might say "maroon" or "pink". Concepts are "discrete" but they are not rigidly fixed. Conceptual systems are larger interacting patterns of concepts. They can include something as formal as math or as informal as how to act at the senior prom. Both concepts and conceptual systems have a kind of organic quality to them in that while they are relatively static they are constantly growing and changing as new percepts are either assimilated into them or they change to accommodate the new input. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
