Steve, Mary, All.
4 April
Mary be- before:,
> > > Question 1: What is the Intellectual Level, and specifically, what
> > > makes it different from the Social Level?
Marry before:
> > Pirsig was nothing if not subtle. Hehehe! True, he went on for two books
> > ranting and railing against everything from World War I, the Hippies,
> > Victorians, and people with more money than brains who could afford to buy
> > elegantly engineered mechanical equipment without the slightest appreciation
> > for how it works. But on one point he was pretty muddy, leaving it to the
> > reader to have the pleasure of working out the difference between the
> > levels. All of them are up for grabs and have been hotly debated.
> > The key. As the teacher says to her class right before the test, "If you
> > don't remember anything else out of this class, remember this." The thing
> > that makes the whole construct of the MoQ WORK is the idea that sets of
> > patterns only achieve the status of a Level when they cease to support the
> > level they are in and go off to meet ends of their own. Brilliant!
Steve:
> Do you have any text to support this claim?
What of Mary's "observations" needs text support? It's all correct.
Pirsig only spent time on biology and carbon as its building block, but
that's all. We had a long period when the inorganic level was the
focus, then some years about the social level before intellect took
over. and have been our "bone" ever since.
> As far as I know there is nothing to the notion of attaining any
> special "status of a Level." Pirsig uses "level" to refer to a type of
> pattern of value.
As Mary says, one tenet is plain namely that of the levels' "status" or
relationship to its parent level, of regarding it as what must be brought
under control and relentlessly sets about to do so. And this tenet
explains about everything, also what the levels must be and reveals
the hopeless "orthodox" intellectual definition. Only "intellect-as-SOM"
meets the criterion of controlling social value.
> I think that as soon as there were any intellectual patterns there was
> an intellectual level since the intellectual level refers to the
> collection of all intellectual patterns.
Well, this is a truism and what is it supposed to prove? When the
universe emerged the inorganic level was established, with life the
biological level ..etc.
Bodvar
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