Thanks Ron, This is something I want to look at more closely as we go. When you have time look into Dooyeweerd's ground motives. I believe the Greek ground motive of matter-form covers all of Greek thought, including Aristotle.
It is true that Neoplatonism mixed in mingled with many things in western thought. And it is true that Christianity was much mixed with neoplatonism. However, I think it can be shown that Neoplatonism is actually the origin of German thought, and the moq. NP is virtually indistinguishable from Hinduism and eastern thought in general. >From the 12th century forward you see a struggle between scholasticism and neoplatonism, which later surfaced in German nature mysticism, for the mind of the West. Scholaticism itself of course being a mix of Christian and Greek ideas. You can follow much of this influence on German thought through and from Master Eickart. So this connection, between Greek, eastern, neoplatonism, and German thought, is essential to understanding our times, the moq. And it has very serious forebodings for freedom, democracy and human rights. You might find this link between Hinduism, Buddhism and Greek thought of interest. http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/marlow.htm* http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/marlow.htm<http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/marlow.htmhttp://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/marlow.htm> * Thanks, Jon On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 9:44 AM, X Acto <[email protected]> wrote: > Jon, > The Majority of the influence of God in explaination in the west comes from > the traditions of Pathagoreanism and neoplatonism. > > Philo of Alexandria may be credited for first bringing > these explainations together in the formation of Christianity. > > Aristotle, disagreed with these schools of thought and felt they > took on too many assumptions in the regard of first principles. > Aristotle was a Pragmatist and scientific method was based > on a theory of explaination. Which may be traced to Socrates. > > -Ron > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Jon Bennett <[email protected]> > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Sent: Sat, April 24, 2010 12:18:40 AM > Subject: Re: [MD] the universe is flat > > MarshaV, John, Ian and company, > > At some point I want to discuss the archetypes of this, and the previous > age. > > If you've looked at the link I posted by Tarnas, you'll see that he refers > to a certain nexus of interrelated ideas that are behind each age. These > are > the metaphysical roots that P speaks of, and each age has them. > > The interesting thing is when you look at them closely, it is clear that > these ideas were originally derived from ideas, or characteristics of God. > > This is most evident and easy to trace with Newton. He is constantly saying > space is absolute, eternal, and uniform, because God is. He was very clear > about this and intentionally thought this way as to understand how God > worked in the world. > > In any event, these ideas that were once thought of as aspects of God, and > in a specific tradition, become the archetypes, the core ideas of > mechanistic physics. > > Not only this, these same ideas are then imputed to all other realms of > thought and cultural expression. > > This is also true with modern physics. Ever read the Tao of Physics, or > Capra's, The Turning Point. He shows meticulously how the ideas in physics, > classical and modern, were spread to other areas of thought. > > In both cases, these archetypal ideas can be traced back to theology, even > in a secular or non religious age, or even once they take on new, non > religious meanings. > > The archetypes behind quantum physics and relativity and even complexity > science like wise can be traced back to philosophy and theology. You can > trace it back to when Hegel wanted to combine the ideas of the finite and > the infinite, the Creator and the creation. This was an intentional move by > Hegel and other of the German Idealist philosophers that followed him, and > this influence was likewise felt on the Romantic poets. > > I know this is but a broad outline, but Hegel and most of the Idealist > philosophers were trained as theologians, and their philosophy deliberately > incorporated theological ideas, and these subsequently influenced the > course > of science, as it did the whole of the culture. > > Hegel's influence in this shift was the Greeks whom he idealized. And I > believe you can trace the moq back to this turning point in Western > thought, > which might be described as the easternization of the West. > > There's an interesting chapter in Alan Blooms, The Closing of the AMerican > Mind, called the German connection, which also makes this connection with > the sixties culture and high German philosophy. And there is also a > connection of German philosophy with Eastern mysticism, as well as Greek > thought. But the trend form Kant, Hegel, Schopenhauer, that leads to > Nietzsche and then Heidegger, is the trend that Pirsig swims in. Did he > take > it furhter than the rest, I'm not sure yet. But he is in this very same > lineage which was begun by theologians considering the nature of God. > > Jon > > > > On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 11:41 PM, John Carl <[email protected]> wrote: > > > When you say "dropped" Marsha, I can take your meaning two differing > ways: > > > > On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 8:59 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I tend to agree that the terms God/Creator/Designer should be > > > dropped as 'a relic of an evil social suppression of intellectual and > > > Dynamic freedom.' > > > > > > The first way of "dropped" is the way we drop a belief in Santa Claus as > we > > grow older and more sophisticated. An adult realization. I dropped a > > belief in Santa Claus when I was around ten. > > > > The second possible meaning I can think of is dropped completely, like > not > > even teaching kids about Santa Clause in the first place. Expunging him > > from our social memories. > > > > Do you mean God should be dropped completely from the world's ideas? Or > do > > you mean on an individual level where a child develops an idea of his own > > mind and worth by his/her overcoming the belief in God? > > > > Or Santa Claus, for that matter. > > > > If you get my question, let me know your answer, or if not one of these > two > > interpretations, some other way of dropping God. > > > > Like, "OOps. I just dropped your God. I hope He didn't break." > > > > John the God breaker > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
