Hi Marsha, On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 2:02 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hello John, > > I don't get where I was being evasive, but let's start again to see > where the problem might be. Ok, we'll start again. I'll try and sum up my entire point in one sentence: Marsha, have you ever considered the idea that atheism as a conclusion comes from having a god-idea to reject in the first place, and that if we hand down atheism to the young, they won't be able to reach this conclusion in the same way, and thus might be intellectually weakened by having all the answers handed to them? > I have a feeling, though, that it lies > in your expectations. > > > Oh I'm absolutely positive that you are correct about that Marsha. I had the expectation that you would read and understand my query, be interested enough in dialogue with me that you would offer me the courtesy of an answer along the following expected lines: "Yes John, I have considered that idea before and I find it a very low-quality idea." "Yes John, I have considered that idea before and I found it intriguing". "No John, I haven't considered that idea before and I find it somewhat intriguing." "No John, I haven't considered that idea before, but is seems so stupid to me that it's understandable why I never did consider it." Or even, "No John, I've never considered the idea you present and I don't find the subject very interesting so I'd rather you just dropped the whole thing." Now since you evaded my basic question about three times, I thought that evasiveness was more interesting than any answer you could give me about whether or not you'd ever considered the long-term social effects of atheism upon future generations. And here we are now. I hope I have at least successfully clarified where I think the evasion comes in. Faithfully, John > Marsha > > > > > > > On Apr 28, 2010, at 4:10 PM, John Carl wrote: > > > Yeah, but I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about the social > > consequences of thinking like you. See the difference? > > > > But hey, I think we're at the point of "waiter... this conversation isn't > > any good". > > > > Or to be more accurate, your evasion has raised more interesting > questions > > to be discussed than the answer ever would have. > > > > yay > > > > jc > > > > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 9:29 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> John, > >> > >> What do you mean by religious thinking? I have told you > >> I am quite comfortable with the Tom Robbins quote. > >> > >> > >> Marsha > >> > >> > >> > >> On Apr 28, 2010, at 12:15 PM, John Carl wrote: > >> > >>> Marsha the evasive, > >>> > >>> > >>>> > >>>>> The first question is: > >>>>> > >>>>> Have you Marsha, ever considered the GOOD effects of > >>>>> overcoming religious thinking in your intellectual development? > >>>> > >>>> Consider? Do you mean systematically, like reading the Great Books? > >>>> No, I've never formally considered my intellectual development. > >>>> > >>>> > >>> Me neither. I bought a set at a yard sale. Cheap. And often thought > >> about > >>> reading them. > >>> > >>> That's what I call intellectual development, thinking about thinking > >> about > >>> thinking. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> > >>>>> The second is related: > >>>>> > >>>>> Whether or not the passing on of this pattern to our children is > >>>> "giving > >>>>> them the answer" without letting them work it out for themselves and > >> thus > >>>> a > >>>>> sort of intellectual crippling with unforseen results? > >>>> > >>>> "The social values are right only if the individual values are right. > >>>> The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and > >>>> head and hands, and then work outward from there. Other > >>>> people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. > >>>> I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what > >>>> I have to say has more lasting value." > >>>> (ZMM, Chapter 25) > >>>> > >>>> > >>> well obviously the author talked about a lot more than merely fixing > >>> motorcycles. I'd say for starters he's talking about talking about > >> fixing > >>> motorcycles in the passage quoted. > >>> > >>> If he'd really just "wanted" to talk about motorcycles then he'd have > >> done > >>> so exclusively. > >>> > >>> And all those confused book store clerks and librarians who stocked > ZAMM > >> on > >>> the auto maintenance sections wouldn't have been so far off. > >>> > >>> But you know all that. You're just being evasive. You're fully aware > >> that > >>> the motorcycle under discussion is the motorcycle known as your > >> intellectual > >>> self. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> I admit its a tricky question but no psychological manipulation is > >>>>> intended. > >>>> > >>>> Maybe you think I'll be more, um, um, receptive? > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> That was my ploy. I see it won't work. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> > >>>>> Just a simply enquiry into social and intellectual values, is all. > >>>>> > >>>>> Love, > >>>> > >>>> Am I suppose to be able to resist love? > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Where there's life there's choice. Where there's choice there's hope. > >>> Where there's hope there's love. > >>> > >>> So no, I guess you weren't. > >>> > >>> But please feel free. > >>> > >>> Nobody ever accused me of confusing my is and my ought! > >>> > >>> > >>> And now I'll leave you alone from my pesky questions before you have to > >> say > >>> "fuck your questions!" > >>> > >>> Admiringly, > >>> > >>> John > >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list > >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >>> Archives: > >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > >> > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> > >> > >> Moq_Discuss mailing list > >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >> Archives: > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > >> > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
