Hi John,
No, I'm sorry John, I've never considered the idea you present
and I don't find the subject very interesting so I'd rather you just
dropped the whole thing.
Yours,
Marsha
On Apr 29, 2010, at 4:49 PM, John Carl wrote:
> Hi Marsha,
>
> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 2:02 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hello John,
>>
>> I don't get where I was being evasive, but let's start again to see
>> where the problem might be.
>
>
> Ok, we'll start again. I'll try and sum up my entire point in one sentence:
>
> Marsha, have you ever considered the idea that atheism as a conclusion comes
> from having a god-idea to reject in the first place, and that if we hand
> down atheism to the young, they won't be able to reach this conclusion in
> the same way, and thus might be intellectually weakened by having all the
> answers handed to them?
>
>
>
>> I have a feeling, though, that it lies
>> in your expectations.
>>
>>
>>
> Oh I'm absolutely positive that you are correct about that Marsha. I had
> the expectation that you would read and understand my query, be interested
> enough in dialogue with me that you would offer me the courtesy of an answer
> along the following expected lines:
>
> "Yes John, I have considered that idea before and I find it a very
> low-quality idea."
>
> "Yes John, I have considered that idea before and I found it intriguing".
>
> "No John, I haven't considered that idea before and I find it somewhat
> intriguing."
>
> "No John, I haven't considered that idea before, but is seems so stupid to
> me that it's understandable why I never did consider it."
>
> Or even,
>
> "No John, I've never considered the idea you present and I don't find the
> subject very interesting so I'd rather you just dropped the whole thing."
>
> Now since you evaded my basic question about three times, I thought that
> evasiveness was more interesting than any answer you could give me about
> whether or not you'd ever considered the long-term social effects of atheism
> upon future generations.
>
> And here we are now.
>
> I hope I have at least successfully clarified where I think the evasion
> comes in.
>
> Faithfully,
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> Marsha
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 28, 2010, at 4:10 PM, John Carl wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, but I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about the social
>>> consequences of thinking like you. See the difference?
>>>
>>> But hey, I think we're at the point of "waiter... this conversation isn't
>>> any good".
>>>
>>> Or to be more accurate, your evasion has raised more interesting
>> questions
>>> to be discussed than the answer ever would have.
>>>
>>> yay
>>>
>>> jc
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 9:29 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> John,
>>>>
>>>> What do you mean by religious thinking? I have told you
>>>> I am quite comfortable with the Tom Robbins quote.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marsha
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 28, 2010, at 12:15 PM, John Carl wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Marsha the evasive,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The first question is:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have you Marsha, ever considered the GOOD effects of
>>>>>>> overcoming religious thinking in your intellectual development?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Consider? Do you mean systematically, like reading the Great Books?
>>>>>> No, I've never formally considered my intellectual development.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Me neither. I bought a set at a yard sale. Cheap. And often thought
>>>> about
>>>>> reading them.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's what I call intellectual development, thinking about thinking
>>>> about
>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The second is related:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whether or not the passing on of this pattern to our children is
>>>>>> "giving
>>>>>>> them the answer" without letting them work it out for themselves and
>>>> thus
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> sort of intellectual crippling with unforseen results?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The social values are right only if the individual values are right.
>>>>>> The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and
>>>>>> head and hands, and then work outward from there. Other
>>>>>> people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind.
>>>>>> I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what
>>>>>> I have to say has more lasting value."
>>>>>> (ZMM, Chapter 25)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> well obviously the author talked about a lot more than merely fixing
>>>>> motorcycles. I'd say for starters he's talking about talking about
>>>> fixing
>>>>> motorcycles in the passage quoted.
>>>>>
>>>>> If he'd really just "wanted" to talk about motorcycles then he'd have
>>>> done
>>>>> so exclusively.
>>>>>
>>>>> And all those confused book store clerks and librarians who stocked
>> ZAMM
>>>> on
>>>>> the auto maintenance sections wouldn't have been so far off.
>>>>>
>>>>> But you know all that. You're just being evasive. You're fully aware
>>>> that
>>>>> the motorcycle under discussion is the motorcycle known as your
>>>> intellectual
>>>>> self.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I admit its a tricky question but no psychological manipulation is
>>>>>>> intended.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe you think I'll be more, um, um, receptive?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That was my ploy. I see it won't work.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just a simply enquiry into social and intellectual values, is all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Love,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am I suppose to be able to resist love?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Where there's life there's choice. Where there's choice there's hope.
>>>>> Where there's hope there's love.
>>>>>
>>>>> So no, I guess you weren't.
>>>>>
>>>>> But please feel free.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nobody ever accused me of confusing my is and my ought!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And now I'll leave you alone from my pesky questions before you have to
>>>> say
>>>>> "fuck your questions!"
>>>>>
>>>>> Admiringly,
>>>>>
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