Hello John, I'll kick that around with you if you'd like, I agree that passing atheism down to our children is passing along a particular prejudice and not passing on the tools and skills to think for themselves.
Passing on Athiesm is still passing along a dogma. -Ron ----- Original Message ---- From: MarshaV <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, April 29, 2010 5:47:35 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Buddhism's s/o Hi John, No, I'm sorry John, I've never considered the idea you present and I don't find the subject very interesting so I'd rather you just dropped the whole thing. Yours, Marsha On Apr 29, 2010, at 4:49 PM, John Carl wrote: > Hi Marsha, > > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 2:02 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> Hello John, >> >> I don't get where I was being evasive, but let's start again to see >> where the problem might be. > > > Ok, we'll start again. I'll try and sum up my entire point in one sentence: > > Marsha, have you ever considered the idea that atheism as a conclusion comes > from having a god-idea to reject in the first place, and that if we hand > down atheism to the young, they won't be able to reach this conclusion in > the same way, and thus might be intellectually weakened by having all the > answers handed to them? > > > >> I have a feeling, though, that it lies >> in your expectations. >> >> >> > Oh I'm absolutely positive that you are correct about that Marsha. I had > the expectation that you would read and understand my query, be interested > enough in dialogue with me that you would offer me the courtesy of an answer > along the following expected lines: > > "Yes John, I have considered that idea before and I find it a very > low-quality idea." > > "Yes John, I have considered that idea before and I found it intriguing". > > "No John, I haven't considered that idea before and I find it somewhat > intriguing." > > "No John, I haven't considered that idea before, but is seems so stupid to > me that it's understandable why I never did consider it." > > Or even, > > "No John, I've never considered the idea you present and I don't find the > subject very interesting so I'd rather you just dropped the whole thing." > > Now since you evaded my basic question about three times, I thought that > evasiveness was more interesting than any answer you could give me about > whether or not you'd ever considered the long-term social effects of atheism > upon future generations. > > And here we are now. > > I hope I have at least successfully clarified where I think the evasion > comes in. > > Faithfully, > > John > > > > > > > >> Marsha >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 28, 2010, at 4:10 PM, John Carl wrote: >> >>> Yeah, but I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about the social >>> consequences of thinking like you. See the difference? >>> >>> But hey, I think we're at the point of "waiter... this conversation isn't >>> any good". >>> >>> Or to be more accurate, your evasion has raised more interesting >> questions >>> to be discussed than the answer ever would have. >>> >>> yay >>> >>> jc >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 9:29 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> John, >>>> >>>> What do you mean by religious thinking? I have told you >>>> I am quite comfortable with the Tom Robbins quote. >>>> >>>> >>>> Marsha >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 28, 2010, at 12:15 PM, John Carl wrote: >>>> >>>>> Marsha the evasive, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> The first question is: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Have you Marsha, ever considered the GOOD effects of >>>>>>> overcoming religious thinking in your intellectual development? >>>>>> >>>>>> Consider? Do you mean systematically, like reading the Great Books? >>>>>> No, I've never formally considered my intellectual development. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Me neither. I bought a set at a yard sale. Cheap. And often thought >>>> about >>>>> reading them. >>>>> >>>>> That's what I call intellectual development, thinking about thinking >>>> about >>>>> thinking. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> The second is related: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Whether or not the passing on of this pattern to our children is >>>>>> "giving >>>>>>> them the answer" without letting them work it out for themselves and >>>> thus >>>>>> a >>>>>>> sort of intellectual crippling with unforseen results? >>>>>> >>>>>> "The social values are right only if the individual values are right. >>>>>> The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and >>>>>> head and hands, and then work outward from there. Other >>>>>> people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. >>>>>> I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what >>>>>> I have to say has more lasting value." >>>>>> (ZMM, Chapter 25) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> well obviously the author talked about a lot more than merely fixing >>>>> motorcycles. I'd say for starters he's talking about talking about >>>> fixing >>>>> motorcycles in the passage quoted. >>>>> >>>>> If he'd really just "wanted" to talk about motorcycles then he'd have >>>> done >>>>> so exclusively. >>>>> >>>>> And all those confused book store clerks and librarians who stocked >> ZAMM >>>> on >>>>> the auto maintenance sections wouldn't have been so far off. >>>>> >>>>> But you know all that. You're just being evasive. You're fully aware >>>> that >>>>> the motorcycle under discussion is the motorcycle known as your >>>> intellectual >>>>> self. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I admit its a tricky question but no psychological manipulation is >>>>>>> intended. >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe you think I'll be more, um, um, receptive? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> That was my ploy. I see it won't work. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Just a simply enquiry into social and intellectual values, is all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Love, >>>>>> >>>>>> Am I suppose to be able to resist love? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Where there's life there's choice. Where there's choice there's hope. >>>>> Where there's hope there's love. >>>>> >>>>> So no, I guess you weren't. >>>>> >>>>> But please feel free. >>>>> >>>>> Nobody ever accused me of confusing my is and my ought! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> And now I'll leave you alone from my pesky questions before you have to >>>> say >>>>> "fuck your questions!" >>>>> >>>>> Admiringly, >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
