On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 10:52 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > [Marsha] >> I do not think there is any certainty that consciousness can be constrained >> to the brain; >> a correlation seems obvious, but beyond that is the unknown.
[Mark] The brain is the window that the consciousness looks through. Without a brain would be your consciousness before you were born. It is a bit different isn't it? Of course memory as we know it does not play a part. This is consciousness without brain. Most of your time is spent there. > > > [Mark] >> A single human cannot be a societal or an intellectual level. >[Craig] > Of course, but a human cannot be an organic/biological 2nd level either. > [Mark now] Yes it can be and is > [Mark] >> Such things [a societal or an intellectual level] are outside and have >> purposes of > their own. >> We can, however, surmise that such levels exist. >[Craig] > But societies don't have purposes of their own. They have only the purposes > we give them. > Cells do have purposes of their own & they don't give us our purpose. We > don't surmise > the 2nd & 3rd level, we are intertwined with them. [Mark now] This would be akin to saying that our consciousness does not have a purpose of its own but only the purpose our cells give us. While such given purpose is a basis for consciousness, it is not the whole thing. Thus we bring in the concept of levels. > > [Mark] >> we have no idea what the societal or intellectual consciousness is knowing. >[Craig] > But we do--we just take a poll of its members. [Mark now] That is not the same thing, we would need to poll the society itself, not the individuals. > > [Mark} >> The intellectual level has a purpose >> of its own and we are as incapable of understanding it, as the >> intellectual level is incapable at understanding us. These are true >> levels, not just extensions of the human mind. >[Craig] > If you see a human as integrating all 4 levels, you can avoid these > conclusions. [Mark now] That makes the whole concept of levels meaningless, in my opinion, it is all a single level. But, yes, one can see the levels in anyway one wants to and arrive at any conclusions possible. The quality of rhetoric provided by the individual is what matters. So, if the intention of integration is to avoid certain conclusions, I would term this avoidance Quality. I have no problem with that. Mark > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
