Hello Craig,
> [John] > > if you examine this "we" you'll see that you're talking about Society. > > Craig: > Examined, but not seen. > John: Well look a little closer then. What can "we" be but a collection of two or more individuals? And where two or more are gathered, we have a social pattern for every social pattern consists exactly of two or more individuals in some kind of relationship. There can be no other possible definition of "social pattern" than the interrelation of individuals, can there? I even go further than this: All individuals are created by social patterning. There's no such thing as an isolated individual. To even postulate the self, you need an other. Craig: Societies have the purposes societies give them is non-explanatory. > So we should stick with: societies have the purposes its members > give them. > > John: The reality is opposite what you say. Individuals have the purposes that societies and social patterns bequeath to them. The lone rebel is a social creation, a reaction against technocratic industrialism perhaps. Take any man on a deserted Island and you will never find any hint of individualism, but rather an intense social longing. > > [John] > > But societal or intellectual consciousness has designated > > spokesmen > > Craig: > In cases where this is true, that just reduces the number of > members which must be polled. In no case is there anything > other than polling members. > John: Ok, even so; "polling members" is a social phenom, not an individualistic one in the biological sense. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
