Ron, I have no idea what you are talking about.
I recently had a houseguest, and of course I talked a little about the MoQ. When asked "what is a static pattern?", I found my definition quite useful as a starting point of explanation. I am not trying to subject any definition concerning the Intellectual Level on anyone. Marsha On Jun 12, 2011, at 9:58 AM, X Acto wrote: > Marsha, > Your stance appears to be a reactionary response to objectivism. Like a slave > who > after having been freed still battles with the chains of bondage. > > What is being argued is that it is already agreed apon that Quality is > Dynamic. > It's what unites us as a group that rejects objectivism. > > But in order to understand, to function, to act moraly, it must > be inteligible. To be moral is to be inteligible, to have limit, order > and meaning . To make prefferences as everchanging patterns > of value. It's what it means to be a collection of choices. > > Intellect is the most moral level, the highest form of good. > > This is a crucial conflict point for the SOM as intellect camp. > > .......Ron > > > ........... > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: MarshaV <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sun, June 12, 2011 8:49:54 AM > Subject: Re: [MD] Words and concepts > > > Hi Horse, > > I think a great place to look for "ever-changing" as I present it is in the > MoQ > Textbook 5.8.4 THE MOQ, DUKKHA AND AVIDAYA (IGNORANCE) > > > "... As Hagen (1997, p.30) notes, one of the most fundamental truths noted > by > the Buddha is that all aspects of our experience are in constant flux and > change. According to the Buddha, when a person ignores this truth they > subject themselves to dukkha." > > > ... > > "... Following Taoism, Hagen sees that the fundamental nature of reality is > change and reality can be handled more effectively if this is realised. This > is > because though irritation and discomfort will tend to arise, they will also > eventually tend to subside. Dukkha occurs primarily because we wish things > were > different i.e. had a permanent, static nature." > > "In order to understand what is being said here, one should try and imagine > all things, objects of experience and oneself, the one who is experiencing, > as > just a flow of perceptions. We do not know that there is something ‘out > there.’ > We have only experiences of colours, shapes, tactile data, and so on. We also > don’t know that we ourselves are anything than a further series of > experiences. > Taken together, there is only an ever-changing flow of perceptions > (vijnaptimatra). (Williams, 1989, p.83)" > > ... > > "This is supported by Herbert Guenther (1957, p.144) who adds: > > "Experience is the central theme of Buddhism, not theoretical postulation > and > deductive verification. Since no experience occurs more than once and all > repeated experiences actually are only analogous occurrences, it follows that > a > thing or material substance can only be said to be a series of events > interpreted as a thing, having no more substantiality than any other series > of > events we may arbitrarily single out."" > > "After some thought, I think Guenther’s comment is valid as I can’t think > of > any events that are repeated exactly. Moreover, like the concept of ‘self’, > there’s no absolute objective rule to judge when one event starts and another > stops. This means that any concept or term is fundamentally indeterminate, > imprecise and, as time passes, increasingly less useful." > > > > I have meant what is very similar to what is quoted here. > > > Marsha > > > > > > > On Jun 12, 2011, at 7:47 AM, MarshaV wrote: > >> >> Horse, >> >> I have only a static 'understanding' of the MoQ. I am not trying, one way >> or >> another, to make anybody else accept it. I am still exploring different >> aspects. Patterns happens to be one area that I found interesting right >> from >> the beginning. My mention of Arlo was just kidding. I meant no harm. I >> think >> Arlo's project is great. >> >> >> >> Marsha >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 12, 2011, at 7:18 AM, Horse wrote: >> >>> Marsha >>> >>> While I'm sure Arlo will be flattered, the reason that Dave spends so much >>> time >>> on what you say is because, over the years, you have managed, consistently, >>> to >>> misunderstand Pirsigs MoQ. >>> You seem to have a very good grasp of Bo's MoQ, Marsha's MoQ, etc., etc. >>> However neither of the aforementioned (or the etc.'s) appear to have much >>> in >>> common with the MoQ as described by Robert M. Pirsig and this, I believe, >>> is the >>> point that DMB is trying to convey. >>> He (and others) also needs to spend that amount of time because (as with Bo >>> previously) you are spending more than a reasonable amount of time >>> promoting a >>> misinterpretation of Pirsigs MoQ on a forum that is here to discuss >>> Pirsig's >>> MoQ. >>> >>> Still, as Dave says in another post, it has given him (and a few others) >>> the >>> chance to defend the MoQ against the sort of misinterpretations that could >>> (and >>> does in at least on case) cause confusion. >>> >>> Horse >>> >>> On 11/06/2011 20:51, MarshaV wrote: >>>> dmb, >>>> >>>> I'm so flattered that you need so much of my attention. Nine out of ten >>>> of >>>> your posts are directed towards what I have said. While I think you are >>>> cute, I >>>> still cannot vote for you to become prom queen. I am going to vote for >>>> Arlo. >>>> >>>> >>>> Marsha >>> >>> -- >> > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
