> dmb says: > Yep. Steve is operating as if any word that has ever been associated with SOM > is permanently and irreversibly infected with some metaphysical disease - and > he does so regardless of how the terms are actually being used or qualified > or put into an entirely different metaphysical context.
Steve: That's true, and in fact, isn't this exactly what you are insisting on with regard to the word "cause." dmb: > Anyway, Steve's hang up with these terms has actual negative consequences. > Because of his insistence that terms like "choice" and "will" are inherently > and irrevocably married to the assumptions of SOM, he has saddled me with all > sorts of claims that I never made or even explicitly denied. Steve: But that isn't what I do with such terms. I have repeatedly said that we make choices and have the subjective sense of willing or intending many of the things we do. What I have questioned is in what way does it make sense to say that willing is free or to reify this subjective sense of willing into a belief in a self that comes before and explains this subjective feeling. In the MOQ, though, freedom is an issue of dynamic versus static quality. "Free will" gets reinterpreted as the capacity to respond to DQ rather than the capacity to freely choose among a set of options. (By the way, no one on any side of the free determinism denies that human beings make choices. The SOM question is always, what is the _basis_ of such choices? Are they imposed by external objective forces or willed internally by a free subject? These are, of course, SOM questions that an MOQer doesn't have. The basis of choice is simply Quality.) dmb: At various points, he has construed my statements as advocating pre-destination, the divine soul, a metaphysical entity called "Free Will" and as advocating SOM, just to name a few off the top of my head. I really don't see how an honest person could attribute such views to anything I've said. And so I denied it, of course, and accused Steve of making stuff up. And when I complain about these wild distortions, he calls me a "dick". Steve: You can probably imagine that I see the situation somewhat differently, that is, unless you are as narcissistic as you so often seem to be. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
