On Aug 3, 2011, at 6:54 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote: > Marsha, dmb, > > Common sense at both ends of that mail, so let's focus on that. > (The trading of accusatory rhetoric and dictionary definitions in > between I'll try to ignore.) > > At the beginning - We are using the terms free-will and determinism. > > And at the end - the Pirsig quote (again) > "To the extent that one's behavior is controlled by static patterns of > quality it is without choice. But to the extent that one follows > Dynamic Quality, which is undefinable, one's behavior is free." > > Well it's quite clear so far as it goes - but Pirsig himself is not > above qualifying himself with the odd weasel word is he ? > "To the extent that ..." he says about both halves of the story. > > He is NOT saying we ARE controlled "deterministically" by static > patterns - if anything he is warning us to beware that we might be, if > we don't look out for them. > He is NOT saying we simply follow DQ - on some path determined by DQ - > he is still saying we have the freedom to choose what opportunities DQ > offers. > > What Pirsig says is perfectly consistent with talking about free-will > and determinism in common sense established ways. > Again (almost) all I see in this thread is rhetorical disagreement for > the sake of wanting to have an argument. > Ian >
Ian, Stay with common sense, it that's what suits you. I think the more important issue, as Steve has suggested, is how to loosen the grip of static quality to move in a more dynamic direction. Marsha > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:18 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >>> Marsha asked: >>> Have you dropped the words 'free-will' and 'determinism'? >>> >>> dmb answered: >>> No, I haven't dropped the terms. >> >> Marsha: >> Okay. >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
