Hi Joe, I agree, metaphysics means beyond physics. That is, beyond the measurable world. Physics cannot measure reality. My point was that by creating concepts within metaphysics, we are actually creating questions, not answers. Using the metaphor of an operating system, the language that we create is designed to give out specific answers. So, it is the questions (operating system) that we are creating in order to get the right answers. Both metaphysics and physics (mathematics) are systems which we create to impart meaning into this existence. They each have their own specific answers due to their structure, their own vocabulary, and the accepted methods for furthering the building of structure. In that sense, they are not different.
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Joseph Maurer <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Mark and all, > > Imho metaphysics provides answers to some questions that physics > (mathematics) cannot explore. For example the range of logical problems > about the definitions of Quality and Evolution belongs in metaphysics. > Physics, the language of mathematics, cannot describe evolution as levels in > existence. MOQ creating its own vocabulary, DQ/SQ, accepts evolution. > > Quality, in SOM, is an adjective. Substance, in SOM, is reality SQ. > Substance is a definable noun. Quality is an adjective Physics/metaphysics! OK > > Quality, in MOQ DQ/SQ, acknowledges evolution in indefinable DQ, changing > DQ/SQ in evolutionary levels in existence OK, I would say that Quality presents itself as evolution within the MoQ framework. We divide this presentation into 4 different levels for the purposes of discourse and meaning. > > How can Quality be so duplicitous? Or, maybe, how can I know that Quality, > an adjective in physics, SQ SOM, morphed into the indefinable Quality of > metaphysics, a noun DQ MOQ? > > SOM has been around since the time of Aristotle. SOM divided existence into > the real existence of things, and the intentional existence created by the > mind for conceptual reality to answer how we know things. MOQ accepts a > direct perception of reality. Evolution is in Limbo. I describe the > metaphysics of evolution as describing levels in existence. I would say that SOM has been around since man began to communicate in words. For people to share something, an object must be made of it. This object is in the form of words. When one is not talking or thinking in words, one is free from SOM. Aristotle ramped up this use of words to categorize and subcategorize philosophical concepts (and everything else) so that they could be discussed in a hierarchical manner. This hierarchy was of course artificial. Through indoctrination and education, these labels replaced the thing that they represented. The analogies became primary, and substance became secondary. It was this dependence on words, to impart personal meaning, that resulted in a diminished awareness of reality. We became our wordy thoughts. > > How does Pirsig with a proposal of DQ/SQ reality achieve metaphysical > status? Quality, not essence, is reality. He proposes an > Indefinable/Definable reality, DQ/SQ metaphysics. He accepts evolution, > which I see as levels in existence. The metaphysical focus shifts from > substance SOM to existence MOQ. I think that Pirsig achieved metaphysical status since he was discussing the nature of being. Metaphysics of any kind must be discussed in SOM terms. However, such discussion can point away from SOM, if the reader does not take the words literally, but as conveyances. I would not say Pirsig "accepts" evolution in four levels. I would say that he provided an analogy of evolution in four levels to help him convey his idea of Quality. These levels are as a constellation in the sky is. It is a way of putting meaning together so that others can see. There is no more Truth in these levels than there is in a constellation, but both can be said to exist. The power of rhetoric is to show others how to look at the stars so they can see the constellations that you see. Cheers, Mark > > > On 11/7/11 2:45 PM, "118" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Metaphysics does not answer questions, it creates them, just like science. In >> my view. > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
