Tuukka, Unfortunately, I do not understand what you are presenting. I do not have a familiarity with the terms as you are using them. I understand we all might find different aspects of the MoQ important, and may approach that interest from different points-of-view. Broadly, I tend to want to consider a pattern from a position of its opposite. That allows for the widest range of possibilities for individual instances and the most dynamic point-of-view. But that's just my opinion. Bottomline, for me, is that Reality = Experience(patterned experience/unpatterned experience). I think to categorize patterns into the four-level, evolutionary, hierarchical structure: inorganic, biological, social and intellectual is brilliant, rational, modern, and suggests a way to bridge Western science with Eastern wisdom. But this is only my own perspective.
But that's enough of me repeating my point-of-view once again, to the point of ad nauseam some would say. Hopefully as you continue to present your point-of-view it wll become bstter understood. Marsha Sent from my iPad On Dec 22, 2011, at 9:10 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko <[email protected]> wrote: > Marsha, > > I agree. I'd say Pirsig's patterns are descriptive abstractions of > conventional-habitual experience. > > I also think that conventional-habitual experience is the same as romantic > quality. > > But because Pirsig's patterns are an analogy of conventional-habitual > experience, I think they do not include normative things such as formal logic > and axiomatic mathematics. To be sure, such formal constructs may be derived > from Pirsig's patterns, but once that has been done, they are inherently > independent of experience. > > In other words, I believe it's possible to construct a normative set of > patterns which is an analogy of Pirsig's patterns, but not the same thing. > > 1. The fundamental normative pattern is the /existence pattern/. It > contains all existing entities, such as symbols and their basic > relations. > 2. From the existence pattern emerges the /increment pattern/. This > pattern includes all existing structures that can have duplicates or > iterations. It contains variables and coefficients. > 3. From the increment pattern emerges the /interaction pattern/. That > pattern includes all rules regarding what kind of increments are > possible and what are not. It contains functions and topology. > 4. From the interaction pattern emerges the /control pattern/, which > contains rules on what can be stated of interactions and what can > not be stated. It contains things like axiomatization and completeness. > > > -Tuukka > > > > 22.12.2011 13:29, MarshaV kirjoitti: >> Hi Mark, >> >> I see patterns, of which words and definitions are an aspect, to all be >> analogy for conventional-habitual experience. >> >> >> Marsha >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:40 PM, 118<[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi Marsha, >>> OK I see how you are using analogy. I would use the word symbolism. >>> There, there was no complaint there, I must be improving my attitude. >>> Thanks for pointing it out. >>> >>> Sent laboriously from an iPhone, >>> Mark >>> >>> On Dec 20, 2011, at 11:05 PM, MarshaV<[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 1:19 AM, 118<[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Marsha, >>>>> I am not griping, I am just talking. Settle down, I am not out to get >>>>> you. My only point was that non-duality is a word which we give the >>>>> idea that there is no "other". >>>> And I don't think you're out to get me, you just tend towards complaint. >>>> >>>> >>>>> An analogy is when we represent something with a similar thing. >>>>> Something that is hard to describe is presented as something that is >>>>> similar. >>>> >>>> I used 'nonduality' as similar to a type of experience. But explanation, >>>> too, with its use of signs and symbols (words) is the use of analogies all >>>> the way down. >>>> >>>> >>>> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
