Hi Marsha, Yes I can dig it. You are much more than a collection of patterns. I can't convince you of that, I know. It will take somebody near and dear to you to do that. Ever tried a medium?
All the best, you deserve it! Sent laboriously from an iPhone, Mark On Dec 22, 2011, at 10:42 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > Mark, > > I believe that the “self” is a flow of ever-changing, conditionally > co-dependent and impermanent, static patterns of inorganic, biological, > social and intellectual value in the infinite field of Dynamic Quality. And > I really dig that DQ. You can believe that. > > > Marsha > > > > On Dec 23, 2011, at 1:19 AM, 118 wrote: > >> Marsha, the opposite of a pattern is you. Believe in yourself. >> >> Sent laboriously from an iPhone, >> Mark >> >> On Dec 22, 2011, at 7:37 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Tuukka, >>> >>> Unfortunately, I do not understand what you are presenting. I do not have >>> a familiarity with the terms as you are using them. I understand we all >>> might find different aspects of the MoQ important, and may approach that >>> interest from different points-of-view. Broadly, I tend to want to >>> consider a pattern from a position of its opposite. That allows for the >>> widest range of possibilities for individual instances and the most dynamic >>> point-of-view. But that's just my opinion. Bottomline, for me, is that >>> Reality = Experience(patterned experience/unpatterned experience). I >>> think to categorize patterns into the four-level, evolutionary, >>> hierarchical structure: inorganic, biological, social and intellectual is >>> brilliant, rational, modern, and suggests a way to bridge Western science >>> with Eastern wisdom. But this is only my own perspective. >>> >>> But that's enough of me repeating my point-of-view once again, to the point >>> of ad nauseam some would say. Hopefully as you continue to present your >>> point-of-view it wll become bstter understood. >>> >>> >>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Dec 22, 2011, at 9:10 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Marsha, >>>> >>>> I agree. I'd say Pirsig's patterns are descriptive abstractions of >>>> conventional-habitual experience. >>>> >>>> I also think that conventional-habitual experience is the same as romantic >>>> quality. >>>> >>>> But because Pirsig's patterns are an analogy of conventional-habitual >>>> experience, I think they do not include normative things such as formal >>>> logic and axiomatic mathematics. To be sure, such formal constructs may be >>>> derived from Pirsig's patterns, but once that has been done, they are >>>> inherently independent of experience. >>>> >>>> In other words, I believe it's possible to construct a normative set of >>>> patterns which is an analogy of Pirsig's patterns, but not the same thing. >>>> >>>> 1. The fundamental normative pattern is the /existence pattern/. It >>>> contains all existing entities, such as symbols and their basic >>>> relations. >>>> 2. From the existence pattern emerges the /increment pattern/. This >>>> pattern includes all existing structures that can have duplicates or >>>> iterations. It contains variables and coefficients. >>>> 3. From the increment pattern emerges the /interaction pattern/. That >>>> pattern includes all rules regarding what kind of increments are >>>> possible and what are not. It contains functions and topology. >>>> 4. From the interaction pattern emerges the /control pattern/, which >>>> contains rules on what can be stated of interactions and what can >>>> not be stated. It contains things like axiomatization and completeness. >>>> >>>> >>>> -Tuukka >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 22.12.2011 13:29, MarshaV kirjoitti: >>>>> Hi Mark, >>>>> >>>>> I see patterns, of which words and definitions are an aspect, to all be >>>>> analogy for conventional-habitual experience. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:40 PM, 118<[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Marsha, >>>>>> OK I see how you are using analogy. I would use the word symbolism. >>>>>> There, there was no complaint there, I must be improving my attitude. >>>>>> Thanks for pointing it out. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent laboriously from an iPhone, >>>>>> Mark >>>>>> >>>>>> On Dec 20, 2011, at 11:05 PM, MarshaV<[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 1:19 AM, 118<[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Marsha, >>>>>>>> I am not griping, I am just talking. Settle down, I am not out to get >>>>>>>> you. My only point was that non-duality is a word which we give the >>>>>>>> idea that there is no "other". >>>>>>> And I don't think you're out to get me, you just tend towards complaint. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> An analogy is when we represent something with a similar thing. >>>>>>>> Something that is hard to describe is presented as something that is >>>>>>>> similar. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I used 'nonduality' as similar to a type of experience. But >>>>>>> explanation, too, with its use of signs and symbols (words) is the use >>>>>>> of analogies all the way down. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>> Archives: >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>>> >>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
