Yes, exactly. We are not patterns. Sent laboriously from an iPhone, Mark
On Dec 23, 2011, at 10:06 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > > "While I am thinking about it there is a very good book on Buddhism recently > out called 'Buddhism, Plain and Simple', by Steve Hagen and published by > Tuttle Publishing. I recommend you get it because it shows the similarities, > between the MOQ and Zen Buddhism more clearly than any other I have seen." > > Pirsig to McWatt, May 6th 1998. > > > > When the Buddha spoke of individuals, he often used a different term > “stream.” Imagine a stream flowing --- constantly moving and changing, > always different from one moment to the next. Most of us see ourselves as > corks floating in a stream, persisting things moving along in the stream of > time. But this is yet another frozen view. According to this view. > everything in the stream changes except the cork. While we generally admit > to changes in our body, our mind, our thoughts, our feelings, our > understandings, and our beliefs, we still believe, “I myself don’t change. > I’m still me. I’m an unchanging cork in an ever-changing stream.” This is > precisely what we believe the self to be --- something that doesn’t change. > > The fact is, however, that there are no corks in the stream. There is only > stream. What we conceptualize as “cork” is also stream. We are like music. > Music, after all, is a type of stream. Music exists only in constant flow > and flux and change. Once the movement stops, the music is no more. It > exists not as a particular thing, but as pure coming and going with no thing > that comes or goes. > > Look at this carefully. If this is true --- how a stream exists, how > music exists, and how we exist --- see how it is that when we insert the > notion of “I” we’re posited some little, solid entity that floats along, not > as stream, but like a cork in a stream. We see ourselves as solid corks, not > as the actual stream we are. > > If we are the stream, what is it that experiences the flux, the flow, the > change? The Buddha saw that there is no particular thing that is having an > experience. There is experience, but no experiencer. There is perception, > but no perceiver. This is consciousness, but no self that can be located or > identified. > > > (Hagen, Steve, ‘Buddhism: Plain and Simple’, p.128) > > > > > > > On Dec 23, 2011, at 11:30 PM, 118 wrote: > >> Hi Marsha, >> Yes I can dig it. You are much more than a collection of patterns. I can't >> convince you of that, I know. It will take somebody near and dear to you to >> do that. Ever tried a medium? >> >> All the best, you deserve it! >> >> Sent laboriously from an iPhone, >> Mark >> >> On Dec 22, 2011, at 10:42 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> Mark, >>> >>> I believe that the “self” is a flow of ever-changing, conditionally >>> co-dependent and impermanent, static patterns of inorganic, biological, >>> social and intellectual value in the infinite field of Dynamic Quality. >>> And I really dig that DQ. You can believe that. >>> >>> >>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> >>> On Dec 23, 2011, at 1:19 AM, 118 wrote: >>> >>>> Marsha, the opposite of a pattern is you. Believe in yourself. >>>> >>>> Sent laboriously from an iPhone, >>>> Mark >>>> > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
