Marsha, the opposite of a pattern is you. Believe in yourself. Sent laboriously from an iPhone, Mark
On Dec 22, 2011, at 7:37 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > Tuukka, > > Unfortunately, I do not understand what you are presenting. I do not have a > familiarity with the terms as you are using them. I understand we all might > find different aspects of the MoQ important, and may approach that interest > from different points-of-view. Broadly, I tend to want to consider a pattern > from a position of its opposite. That allows for the widest range of > possibilities for individual instances and the most dynamic point-of-view. > But that's just my opinion. Bottomline, for me, is that Reality = > Experience(patterned experience/unpatterned experience). I think to > categorize patterns into the four-level, evolutionary, hierarchical > structure: inorganic, biological, social and intellectual is brilliant, > rational, modern, and suggests a way to bridge Western science with Eastern > wisdom. But this is only my own perspective. > > But that's enough of me repeating my point-of-view once again, to the point > of ad nauseam some would say. Hopefully as you continue to present your > point-of-view it wll become bstter understood. > > > Marsha > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 22, 2011, at 9:10 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Marsha, >> >> I agree. I'd say Pirsig's patterns are descriptive abstractions of >> conventional-habitual experience. >> >> I also think that conventional-habitual experience is the same as romantic >> quality. >> >> But because Pirsig's patterns are an analogy of conventional-habitual >> experience, I think they do not include normative things such as formal >> logic and axiomatic mathematics. To be sure, such formal constructs may be >> derived from Pirsig's patterns, but once that has been done, they are >> inherently independent of experience. >> >> In other words, I believe it's possible to construct a normative set of >> patterns which is an analogy of Pirsig's patterns, but not the same thing. >> >> 1. The fundamental normative pattern is the /existence pattern/. It >> contains all existing entities, such as symbols and their basic >> relations. >> 2. From the existence pattern emerges the /increment pattern/. This >> pattern includes all existing structures that can have duplicates or >> iterations. It contains variables and coefficients. >> 3. From the increment pattern emerges the /interaction pattern/. That >> pattern includes all rules regarding what kind of increments are >> possible and what are not. It contains functions and topology. >> 4. From the interaction pattern emerges the /control pattern/, which >> contains rules on what can be stated of interactions and what can >> not be stated. It contains things like axiomatization and completeness. >> >> >> -Tuukka >> >> >> >> 22.12.2011 13:29, MarshaV kirjoitti: >>> Hi Mark, >>> >>> I see patterns, of which words and definitions are an aspect, to all be >>> analogy for conventional-habitual experience. >>> >>> >>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:40 PM, 118<[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Marsha, >>>> OK I see how you are using analogy. I would use the word symbolism. >>>> There, there was no complaint there, I must be improving my attitude. >>>> Thanks for pointing it out. >>>> >>>> Sent laboriously from an iPhone, >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> On Dec 20, 2011, at 11:05 PM, MarshaV<[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 1:19 AM, 118<[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Marsha, >>>>>> I am not griping, I am just talking. Settle down, I am not out to get >>>>>> you. My only point was that non-duality is a word which we give the >>>>>> idea that there is no "other". >>>>> And I don't think you're out to get me, you just tend towards complaint. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> An analogy is when we represent something with a similar thing. >>>>>> Something that is hard to describe is presented as something that is >>>>>> similar. >>>>> >>>>> I used 'nonduality' as similar to a type of experience. But explanation, >>>>> too, with its use of signs and symbols (words) is the use of analogies >>>>> all the way down. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
