Now, Andre, I can pay attention to dmb fleeing like a gazelle or pay attention to you braying like an ass, or I can inquire onto the similarities between the MoQ and Zen Buddhism as suggested by RMP.
On Nov 11, 2012, at 9:13 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: "While I am thinking about it there is a very good book on Buddhism recently out called 'Buddhism, Plain and Simple', by Steve Hagen and published by Tuttle Publishing. I recommend you get it because it shows the similarities, between the MOQ and Zen Buddhism more clearly than any other I have seen." - Pirsig to McWatt, May 6th 1998. > > On Nov 11, 2012, at 7:52 AM, Andre Broersen wrote: > >> Marsha to dmb: >> I thought the topic was intellectual value over social and biological value, >> since most of the quotes you presented had nothing to do with economics or >> money and made no sense in that context. The quote from Chapter 32 was in >> response to Andre claiming the "moral goodness of intellectual patterns >> dominating social and biological patterns". That little poem contradicts >> such notions as it suggests that social and biological patterns should be >> sustained, while intellectual patterns should be killed completely. >> But consider this: "Thought is not a path to reality. It sets obstacles in >> that path because when you try to use thought to approach something that is >> prior to thought your thinking does not carry you toward that something. It >> carries you away from it. To define something is to subordinate it to a >> tangle of intellectual relationships. And when you do that you destroy real >> understanding." (RMP,'LILA') >> >> Andre: >> Boy oh boy you really are seriously confused Marsha. Dmb (wow he's patient >> with you)...please follow his advice since you still don't get it because >> you are confusing and continue to confuse your two perspectives!!! The heart >> of this confusion lies in your silly, confused notion that 'Dq is none other >> than sq' (and vice versa). >> >> And here, in this Pirsig quote you are doing it again!!! Let me cut corners, >> be crude and disregard a few things to make it very clear to you: what this >> forum is meant to be doing is discussing Pirsig's MoQ. It is a metaphysics. >> It is meant to make this world (sq) a little better. If a metaphysics does >> not do that, forget it. >> >> The MoQ is NOT Reality (another one of your confusions). The MoQ is a static >> intellectual pattern of quality. The MoQ is NOT a path to enlightenment, NOT >> a path to reality. Your wonderful repitition of Pirsig's stanza, >> particularly the 'kill all intellectual patterns' bit points towards a >> mystical understanding of reality. As dmb keeps on saying (as is this >> thread's title) do not confuse mysticism with economics...with fame, fortune >> and glory. These are social patterns of quality and I would suggest to you >> that to confuse social patterns of quality with mysticism is not only >> immoral. It is a direct insult to the intellectual level. >> >> Please read what Pirsig wrote on Hagan's 'Buddhism made Simple'. Read is >> slowly and carefully...especially where he says:'If you are looking for >> enlightenment rather than... . >> >> Okay, I've made the MoQ too simple but do you get it now? >> >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
