Hi dmb,
I thought the topic was intellectual value over social and biological value,
since most of the quotes you presented had nothing to do with economics or
money and made no sense in that context. The quote from Chapter 32 was in
response to Andre claiming the "moral goodness of intellectual patterns
dominating social and biological patterns". That little poem contradicts such
notions as it suggests that social and biological patterns should be sustained,
while intellectual patterns should be killed completely. But consider this:
"Thought is not a path to reality. It sets obstacles in that path because when
you try to use thought to approach something that is prior to thought your
thinking does not carry you toward that something. It carries you away from it.
To define something is to subordinate it to a tangle of intellectual
relationships. And when you do that you destroy real understanding."
(RMP,'LILA')
I have no hatred for philosophy. I like philosophy. I think Mr. Pirsig is the
greatest philosopher. -
You calling me and others a troll every time you do not get agreement, does
nothing for your credibility.
Marsha
On Nov 10, 2012, at 4:51 PM, david buchanan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Marsha:
> The topic is economics and money. Pirsig's claim that fame and fortune are
> central to social level values is not contradicted by the quote from chapter
> 32. I know you like to trot out this quote to "kill all intellectual
> patterns" that you don't like, but it simply makes no sense to use claims
> about mysticism against claims about money or the moral conflicts between
> social and intellectual values. These are two very topics and the quotes are
> drawn from different contexts. If your reading were right, Pirsig's work
> would be so full of contradictory nonsense that it would be unreadable
> drivel. As you have it, intellectual values are the most moral and most
> highly evolved form of static quality AND we should kill all intellectual
> patterns in order to serve morality. I'll give you a thousand dollars if you
> can make any sense of that idea.
> Like I've tried to explain many times, you cannot take this "killing"
> literally. He's talking about putting them to sleep through mastery. Morality
> is served when one can use the static intellectual patterns effortlessly
> because that's when you've developed a feel for the work well enough to
> follow the Dynamic Quality.
> Your constant stream of anti-intellecutal nonsense undermines the MOQ in all
> sorts of ways, in the most central and crucial ways.
>
> Seriously, you have to ask yourself a question. What kind of person joins a
> philosophical discussion group to express her hatred of philosophy and
> philosophers? You're a freaking troll, Marsha, and you're just not capable of
> doing what we're supposed to doing here. Please, go away. Get a hobby. Make a
> friend. Whatever. Obviously, you have no business being here.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Nov 9, 2012, at 8:02 PM, Andre Broersen wrote:
>>
>>> The point dmb and Pirsig are making is the moral goodness of intellectual
>>> patterns dominating social and biological patterns. In other words it is
>>> good for social and biological patterns to be subordinate to intellectual
>>> patterns. Currently some intellectual patterns are subordinated to serve
>>> social (financial) interests. This seems to be an accepted moral code
>>> (which you defend)in the same way what held the Victorian pattern together.
>>
>> Here is another point RMP has presented:
>>
>> "While sustaining biological and social patterns
>> Kill all intellectual patterns.
>> Kill them completely
>> And then follow Dynamic Quality
>> And morality will be served."
>> (LILA, Chapter 32)
>>
>>
>> Marsha:
>> How it that that morality will be served??? It seems Andre's presentation
>> of RMP's point does not necessarily match with what he writes in Chapter 32.
>> I am glad you cleared up your point. I don't always find things as
>> obviously black or white as you do.
>>
>>
>> Marsha
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>>
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