[Ron]
What drives evolution is "not this, not that".
[Arlo]
Marsha's "neti neti" is another way of saying "undefined". No one disputes
this. No one has said Dynamic Quality is definable. In this sense, even
"Dynamic Quality" (as a name) is problematic. Consider, what value the modifier
"Dynamic" could add to a undefined term. "Quality" also certainly imparts some
meaning. It is a metaphysics that speculates about this undefined, and part of
that speculation is a meaningful semiotic (redundant, I know), which includes
the totality of the words used 'around' that undefined (labels, definitions,
pointers, stories, music, pictures, icons, references, metaphors, typographies,
etc.).
So once we've left the meditative trance on the mountaintop, once we're
immersed in a metaphysical dialogue, meaning is important. Once we call that
undefined 'neti neti' by the term "Quality" or "Dynamic Quality" or "Value" or
"Experience", we are pointing to something salient and meaningful. Seeing this
primary undefined as Quality/value is the root of all Pirsig's subsequent
writings. It 'points to' meaning, even if 'definition' is impossible.
As with you, Ron, I'm not sure what sense it makes to suggest that 'not this,
not that' is the evolutionary force. All this does is say "we can't define the
evolutionary force". Hell, even the attribute "evolutionary" points to meaning,
as does "force". To be genuine, Marsha would have to object to Pirsig referring
to the undefined as "Quality" as even this violates the 'neti, neti' by
assigning specific meaning to an undefinable.
But, to your point, when Pirsig saw this 'undefined' as 'Quality', right there
is the point where meaning begins. By referring to the undefined as "Quality"
we are making a metaphysical assumption, and this is that that undefined is
'value', it is the 'betterness' we sense but can never capture. It is from this
one semiotic point that all the other things we talk about here make sense. If
the undefined was say "Undefined", we'd be left with a Metaphysics of
Undefined, and defined patterns of undefinability. Since it'd make no sense to
say "Dynamic Undefined", that'd be dropped, and we'd have only waves of defined
undefinedness emanating from the Undefined.
Instead, we have "value" (betterness, Quality) as the "creative force" (LILA),
the "ongoing free force of life" (LILA), "the great central generating force"
(ZMM), all of which are analogies, of course, but analogies point to meaning,
and it is this meaning which is the foundation of the metaphysics we are here
to discuss (for some, ostensibly).
[Ron]
My thoughts too,when the concept of neti-neti essentialy nullifies experience
as less
than or limited the risk is developing the appearence-reality problem again.
What is then rationalized (a move away from the empirical now) is an ulimate
reality beyond
our experience.
Combine this with postmodernist point of view and it begins to feel like a
religious
explanation that requires more blind faith than sound reason.
..Are you planning to do Milford on the bike?
..
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