John Carl said July 8th 2014: "I don't know what to say except the only people who have ever accused me of stupidity are very stupid people. I have more than a few friends who are smart, and they all respect my intelligence so I don't know what else to conclude about you three, Arlo and Ant and DMB. You're just not that smart. Certainly not smart enough to judge MY intelligence."
DMB said to this comment earlier today: "...Who defines intellect by IQ alone? Not me. And it seems you've carefully avoided every opportunity to demonstrate your understanding and intelligence. Like I said, the problem is your refusal to engage with the substance of the criticisms..." Arlo wisely said to you earlier today: "...Any philosophy forum is open to (or should be open to) what I call "learned disagreement". Philosophy itself, as a tradition, is a long narrative of thesis, disagreement, affirmation, reconstruction and extension. Pirsig, in this larger narrative, presents a "learned disagreement" with the Aristotelian tradition and how it has shaped cultural attitudes. His work is, in many ways, an extension of the works of James and Dewey and other pragmatists. It is not 'copy', but it is not a soliloquy in a vacuum either..." And also said to you earlier today: "...As I tell students I work with, the simplest progression is "A said B. A was wrong about B. This is why A was wrong about B. I propose C instead of B. Here's why C is better." Each step in this progression is subject to examination for accuracy, and you can't conflate criticism with one step as criticism for another (or all)." Ant McWatt comments: John, To add to what both DMB and Arlo have said to you, I will also remind you of one of my favorite phrases of Pirsig's found right at the beginning of ZMM in Chapter 1: "In this Chautauqua I would like not to cut any new channels of consciousness but simply dig deeper into old ones that have become silted in with the debris of thoughts grown stale and platitudes too often repeated. 'What's new?' is an interesting and broadening eternal question, but one which, if pursued exclusively, results only in an endless parade of trivia and fashion, the silt of tomorrow. I would like, instead, to be concerned with the question 'What is best?,' a question which cuts deeply rather than broadly, a question whose answers tend to move the silt downstream." Now, the latter paragraph should apply to ANY philosophy discussion group worthy of that name but - especially with the above quote in mind - with the one devoted to Pirsig's work. DMB and Arlo obviously take philosophical discussion very seriously AND SO DO I - most of the time anyway... (I know we're not perfect in this regard). Judging from your recent contributions on this discussion group, I know you like flitting from one philosophical issue to another like a butterfly on speed or a young kid in a large candy shop. Unfortunately, MOQ Discuss (like any other philosophy discussion group that wants to cut deeply into an issue) just can't work that way whatever interesting thoughts might quickly pass ANY one's mind during the day. That's not why MOQ Discuss was established for, way back when (in 1998) and this remains the case today. Facebook (or a similar social internet network) might be OK for just passing the day with such brief observations and comments but not here. However, IF you'd like to discuss Pirsig's work on a deeper level, I will respond to you seriously but (certainly speaking for myself), if I want to discuss 'what's new' in our world today, then I will go down my local bar or pick-up the phone to an old mate. As the old proverb says: "Horses for Courses"! So, if you want to discuss Pirsig's work with me (or anyone else for that matter) here, try to think of the FOREMOST burning issue with Pirsig's work over the next day or two and start from there. And try to just stick to this one issue until we reach some sort of agreement or simply, as often happens in philosophy, we just agree to disagree! If you want to bring in Royce (or any other writer/philosopher) to help explain this issue, that's fine with me too but personally I don't have the time or inclination to be distracted by trivia on any philosophy discussion group and, of course, this Board. Best (sincere) wishes, Ant P.S. I'm meeting-up with a fellow MOQ academic that I have never met before in his country on Friday so I won't get the chance to look at MOQ Discuss (or any thing else on the internet actually!) for the next few days afterwards. I'll be back home by next Thursday though. A . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
