Thanks for that piece of chewing gum Arlo. I’ll put ”shared attention” on my to-do list.
btw Football and other team sports can be considered as instruments for evaluating social patterns of ”shared attention”, isn’t it? Jan-Anders 12 aug 2014 x kl. 09:54 skrev ARLO JAMES BENSINGER JR <[email protected]>: > [Dan] > I suppose it all depends on the definition of 'seeing.' As Ant brought up, > all patterns are 'seen' as representations in the mind. I would say that > 'seeing' a game is dependent upon underlying assumptions that are at work in > all phases of our culture. > > [Arlo] > So is 'seeing' a red blood cell under a microscope. Or 'seeing' a quark in a > particle accelerator. If you took a person who had never seen a microscope, > or had no idea what it was, and who had a culturally variant understanding of > the human body, and you took him/her and told him to look into a microscope, > s/he'd have no understanding of what s/he was looking at. All tools are > cultural tools, and all depend on cultural assumptions, as you suggest. So, > certainly, in this same way someone who had never seen a soccer match, or has > never seen any organized sport, would probably not see the same social > patterns that I would. This is, of course, exactly like the "green flash of > the sun". > > All I am suggesting is that ALL levels are visible, but you have to be > looking with the right tool. But, yes, all tools require cultural > familiarity. > > [Dan] > Exactly... I agree. Still, you would be using underlying assumptions built > into our culture in establishing which person is POTUS. If we were to take a > tribesman from some obscure corner of the globe and drop him into a White > House meeting he would probably think they were all crazy as loons. > > [Arlo] > Right, I think we are in agreement, Dan. Certainly an un-western-enculturated > tribesman would not know how to use our 'activity' lens to see our social > patterns. In the same way you or I would not be able to see his cultures > social patterns with our 'activity' lens (this was, largely, Kluckhohn's > point as referenced in LILA). But I think this extends to all tools, tools > for examining all four levels require understanding or awareness of the > cultural assumptions and 'knowledge' underlying that tool. > > By the way, I think we can see intellectual patterns as well, but here we > can't use the 'activity' lens, we need a new tool, and I'd argue that > semiotic/symbolic 'recursion/self-reference' is one lens we can use to > examine intellectual patterns. Only saying this because I don't want the > intellectual level to feel left out in all this. > > [Ant] > Thanks for that last post Arlo and especially for that phrase "shared > attention". That's a nice "intellectual tool" that you discovered there. > > [Arlo] > I think it works nicely as the emergent-catalyst for social patterns. In the > same way that you can find carbon atoms at the base of all biological > patterns, I think you can find shared attention at the base of all social > patterns. I think the idea works well within the MOQ's framework of levels, > as the question of 'how did social life emerge from biological life?' was > exactly the question Tomasello was considering. > > As an aside (mostly), I think that those operating within the general mindset > of sociocultural theory present a strong overlap with the MOQ as this > tradition specifically adopts a biological->social->intellectual evolutionary > trajectory (even if they lack the MOQ's Quality-based ontology), whereas most > others seem to work from a biological->intellectual or > biological->consciousness perspective. Sociocultural theory has heavily > informed 'activity theory' (which, to be fair, has its heart now in > Scandinavia). This is why when I say 'activity' I mean it in the Russian (and > now heavily Scandinavian) sense defined as purposeful, agenic, semiotic, > mediated. > > [Ant] > P.S. Like Jan-Anders and Dan, I have also found Henry Miller's "BIG SUR" book > a REALLY well written book. > > [Arlo] > With so many accolades appearing on this list, I've added this book to my > queue. :-) > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
