Quoting ARLO J BENSINGER JR <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > [Arlo previously] > Not according to Pirsig, who rightly describes how the collective > consciousness > unites our minds as cells in a body. > > [Platt] > You mean "common knowledge" rather than "collective consciousness" don't you? > > [Arlo] > No, I mean what I wrote.
I quote from your post of May 14: "Finally, note that the collective consciousness, according to Pirsig, does indeed include the intellectual level. In the segment you cite in an attempt to show otherwise, you omit this precedent. "The mythos-over-logos argument points to the fact that each child is born as ignorant as any caveman. What keeps the world from reverting to the Neanderthal with each generation is the continuing, ongoing mythos, transformed into logos BUT STILL MYTHOS, the huge body of common knowledge that unites our minds as cells are united in the body of man." Seems you changed Pirsig's words to fit your collectivist agenda. > [Platt] > No. "Stare at in wonder" is a human baby's response to DQ long before she > knows anything about social-intellectual patterns. > > [Arlo] > Its a biological pattern of response. But even that human baby is awash in > social patterns, and begins at a very early age appropriating social > understandings. According to Pirsig, it's pure DQ of a human kind. > [Platt] > As for what responded to DQ before humans, read the chapter in Lila explaining > evolution from the MOQ perspective. > > [Arlo] > There is nothing there to support your contention, despite your smug attempt > to > dismiss the question. > > But answer me this, was there ever a time when animals responded to DQ? If so, > please explain to me how they were any different then than they are now. I > mean, certainly cats could at one time respond to DQ? Or could they never > respond to DQ? When they could, how were they different from today? Did they > stare at their paws in wonder and delight back then? Again I refer you to Pirsig's explanation of the role of DQ in evolution. I see no reason to repeat what he said despite your smug response. > [Platt] > This is the "self" I hold dear, morally separate and higher than "collective > consciousness." But I understand you reluctance to acknowledge this. > > [Arlo] > Yeah, you know THAT'S funny. Since I am the one who support national health > care because INDIVIDUAL human life is MORE VALUABLE than social level wealth. > And it is me who denounces capital punishment because of the value of the > INDIVIDUAL. And since I am the one who denounces all consensual "crime" > because > INDIVIDUAL freedom is supreme to state control (including public nudity and > wearing items of choice). > > Your deep-rooted hypocrisy nonwithstanding, once again you demonstrate only > your desire to drag the conversation back into some artificial (and political) > dichotomy. You chose to emphasize the individual only when it suits your political agenda, like universal health care which is nothing but collectivist program. > This "self" that you pretend to hold so dear, is the emergent result of > combinations of individual and collective patterns, the result of individual > bodily-kinesthetic experience intertwining with the collective consciousness. > It is NOT a matter of "one person versus a group of people", but a process by > which that little "strange loop" in your head, that dialogic reference point, > which is always in flux, that arises from the mutually-transformative and > mutually-generative "dance" between your "proprietary experience" and the > "collective consciousness" comes into being, and what it means that it comes > into being in this manner... that it is a part of the world, not apart from > it. As I read the above all I could think of was Pirsig's comment about Kluckhohn: "With that lead balloon for a vehicle there was no way he could succeed." (Lila,5) ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
