Also, the MoQ, when it speaks of Quality, limits itself only to one state of consciousness -- the waking state. What about dreamless sleep? That is a Zen state of mind, but then the fundamental classification of the world should be Quality and non-Quality (=dead/sleeping), because Quality is experience. When you wake up, Quality (or experience) knows that the time passed had been spent in a non-Quality state of mind because of our powers of deduction and lack of memory in that period of time. Though on the other hand, if I'm given an electric shock, I might even forget my name, and so all I will have got is Dynamic quality...
And so in a way I still agree with the MoQ's division :p. But why is Dynamic Quality attributed to growth? It shouldn't be. I thought DQ is associated with the direct experience I'm having at the moment as I type this, the real moment. -- Akshay On 5/31/07, Akshay Peshwe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I don't think that ZMM is such an important book (so with the case of > Lila) -- I just don't think Pirsig is the center of "his philosophy" of > Quality. Whitehead is a brilliant philosopher who makes a much better > attempt at writing philosophy than Pirsig. > > Initially, I didn't think of Quality or Value as in the sense of goodness > or virtue -- I simply thought of it within the "scientific" framework (where > it means characteristic), since characteristics are the "groundstuff" of > the "world". When Pirsig talks about Quality, I interpret it Quality as > preference. Organic molecules "chose" to evolve over millions of years to > form animals. When I accept this fact, the famous "why did this happen?" > question comes up which ultimately opens up the question of the purpose of > the universe. Quality, I think, is just a sort of replacement for the word > purpose, because why would something happen if it didn't have purpose; or in > a more Pirsigian way, "it happened because it was Better". So, the > Metaphysics of Quality to me is nothing greater than the four-fold > classification of inorganic, biological, social and intellectual patterns > with a mix of dynamic- and static- ness that maintains Order. This is > parallel to the yin-yang principle. (Note how dynamicness is only a > characteristic of a particular type of pattern) Pirsig would probably laugh > this off, but maybe I need time to evolve to the truth of the MoQ (if it has > truth at all); until then, that is my belief. On another note, I don't fully > accept the "metaphysics" part of the MoQ, because I don't see it as "The > Philosophy", it's only a good intellectual tool. > > I'd say GEB is a far, far better book -- I'd rate it as the best book > since 1950. > > -- Akshay > > On 5/31/07, David M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Ron > > > > I meant ZMM of course. But if you fancy a change try Bishop Berkeley > > or Whitehead's Process & Reality for explanation of why the subject > > object language is optional and questionable. > > > > DM > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ron Kulp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: < [email protected]> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 8:08 PM > > Subject: Re: [MD] Perception,evolution and the spirit > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ron said: > > >> Subject/object perception can not be "dropped" like a unstylish hand > > >> bag. > > >> Anyone who thinks they do not percieve in terms of subjects and > > >> objects is fooling themselves. > > > > > > > > > I know a good book you should read. > > > > > > DM > > > > > > > > > [Ron] > > > Do tell, I could use a good read. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > moq_discuss mailing list > > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > > Archives: > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > > > moq_discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
