Quoting Arlo Bensinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> [Platt]
> This distortion of the views of Leo Straus could
> be expected from the BBC whose left-wing bias...
>
> [Arlo]
> Of course, anything that challenges the orthodoxy
> can be easily dismissed as "bias". Only
> right-wing channels are clear and unbiased.
Read the BBC bias report and weep.
> [Platt]
> A more balanced and accurate account of Straus' view is from Wikipedia:
>
> [Arlo]
> There is nothing in the passage you quoted that
> does anything more than show the BBC abbreviated
> version was clear and accurate.
>
> For example, "Strauss taught that liberalism in
> its modern form contained within it an intrinsic
> tendency towards relativism, which in turn led to
> two types of nihilism ("Epilogue").[2] The first
> was a "brutal" nihilism, expressed in Nazi and
> Marxist regimes. These ideologies, both
> descendants of Enlightenment thought, tried to
> destroy all traditions, history, ethics and moral
> standards and replace it by force with a supreme
> authority from which nature and mankind are
> subjugated and conquered.[4] The second type -the
> "gentle" nihilism expressed in Western liberal
> democracies - was a kind of value-free
> aimlessness and hedonism, which he saw as
> permeating the fabric of contemporary American
> society" articulates exactly with "Strauss
> believed that the liberal idea of individual
> freedom led people to question everythingall
> values, all moral truths. Instead, people were
> led by their own selfish desires. And this
> threatened to tear apart the shared values which held society together."
>
> From the Wikipedia entry you quoted. "By
> implication, Strauss asks his readers to consider
> whether it is true that "noble lies" have no role
> at all to play in uniting and guiding the polis.
> Are "myths" needed to give people meaning and
> purpose and to ensure a stable society? Or can
> men dedicated to relentlessly examining, in
> Nietzsche's language, those "deadly truths",
> flourish freely?" This articulates exactly with
> "It was for politicians to assert powerful and
> inspiring myths that everyone could believe in.
> They might not be true, but they were necessary illusions."
How you read that as supporting the BBC version is beyond me. Further,
if anyone has been pushing the value of myths, it's been you.
> [Platt]
> Those familiar with Pirsig's writing know that he
> also saw a "deterioration of modern society and
> philosophy and sought to uncover the
> philosophical pathways that had led to this situation"
>
> [Arlo]
> What Pirsig saw was a "slow confused mindless
> drift back to a kind of pseudoVictorian moral
> posture", which is only what neoconservatism
> offers. And let us be quite clear that Pirsig
> says directly, "The Hippies have been interpreted
> as frivolous spoiled children, and the period
> following their departure as a "return to
> values," whatever that means. The Metaphysics of
> Quality, however, says that's backward: the
> Hippie revolution was the moral movement. The
> present period is the collapse of values."
A "collapse of values" -- precisely. Quality in decline. As for the Hippies,
we know what Pirsig said about their misguided frivolities.
> [Platt]
> What follows is Arlo's usual diatribe against me personally. Nothing new here.
>
> [Arlo]
> You personally? Nothing personal at all, Platt.
> Its your deceptive and distortive rhetoric that
> has always been the target of my ire. If you want
> to warp that into a personal attack, feel free,
> but its fair to point out these deceptions and
> distortions, and to lament their use in this forum.
But you don't point out how what I say is deceptive and distortive. You just
blame your disagreement with what I say on Limabaugh and talk radio,
implying that I'm a mind-numbed robot with nary a brain in his head. Nothing
personal, mind you. Yeah, right.
> [Platt]
> Of course, the self-proclaimed academic "critical
> thinker" has omitted how the meaning of the word
> liberal has changed in modern America, as clearly
> explained in the same Wikipedia article:
>
> [Arlo]
> See, now that's an excellent example of the
> distortion and deception laden in your rhetoric.
> I never omitted how the word has changed. Indeed,
> Jos had pointed out precisely THAT the word had
> changed, and I was commenting on the HOW and WHY
> of this transition. But, hey, why bother with honest dialogue.
Read your post again. You quoted at length about how liberalism was
the party of individualism and freedom.
> [Platt]
> What's embarrassing and evil is for someone
> posing as a "critical thinker" should exhibit
> such egregious distortion, intolerance and bias.
>
> [Arlo]
> And thanks for the classic Pee-Wee Manuever ("I
> know what you are, but what am I?"). Always a treat to see.
See? A personal insult -- "Pee-Wee manuever" -- associating me with a despicable
character.
> But now I am done with this one too. Since this
> will become for you nothing but another outlet of
> "Evil "libs" that seek to take away your basic
> freedoms, "libs" that lie, cheat, insult and
> malign, "libs" that side with terrorists and are
> anti-American, pro-surrender, "libs" that want
> American soldiers to die. Fear them! For they are
> the enemy of pure and noble conservatives, who
> are honest and forthwith, who seek open dialogue
> and who safeguard your liberties."
>
> As I said, that's nothing but embarrassing, vile
> political rhetoric. This is caller number eleven hanging up the phone.
You keep threatening to "hang up" on me, but never do. Promises, promises.
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