[Jos to Platt] would you not agree that the explosion of a vast indiscriminate and degenerate media is a function of the push towards greater personal freedom and not away from it? You can't honestly think this drift into base doltish-mediafrenzy-cult-of- celebrity-dross has stemmed from the push factors of latent embedded Marxism? Can you?
[Arlo] And that's just the point I had tried to make with the Qutb passage. Ironically, both Qutb and Leo Strauss (the father of neoconservatism) bemoaned the degeneracy the inevitably flows from so-called "individual freedom". "Strauss believed that the liberal idea of individual freedom led people to question everything—all values, all moral truths. Instead, people were led by their own selfish desires. And this threatened to tear apart the shared values which held society together. But there was a way to stop this, Strauss believed. It was for politicians to assert powerful and inspiring myths that everyone could believe in. They might not be true, but they were necessary illusions. One of these was religion; the other was the myth of the nation." (BBC) This is the fundamental paradox of modern neoconservatism, and why there is such a vociferous demand for obedience to the Myth of the Nation, alongside the pandering to Christianity (even though the core meaning of Christianity is outright abandoned). This is why Platt sees no contradiction in professing to be a bastion for "individual liberty", all the while moving against liberty through the guises of prudery, fear and the age-old cry of "the good old days". But that is just a rhetorical game, along with acting all "anti-taxation" rather than acknowledging first that taxation is necessary (military, for one example) and beneficial (public parks, for example) and then second being against certain tax-funded programs. From there we could dialogue. From the rhetoric of "commie-you versus Liberty-Me" its all talk-radio blowhardism. Same with the perennial nonsense about "leftist media" (its more accurately the "commercial media", as it is driven by advertising and profit) and "political correctness" (remember, for fun, that this same person was in favor of banning the hijab but decried when some threatened the use of the word "nigger"). As for the "leftist academy" dribble, that's "just right-wing politics", as the radical professor Pirsig points out. All these are Limbaughisms, talking points they wrap themselves around and dole out at every opportunity, but when examined are simply empty words. [Jos] Funny how our usage of language has us calling liberalism something that restricts and conservatism something that frees? [Arlo] This usurption of words leads us to forget that it was liberalism that gave us the liberty we enjoy today. "Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. A liberal society is characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on power, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market economy, free private enterprise, and a transparent system of government in which the rights of all citizens are protected. In the 21st century, this usually means liberal democracy with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law. Liberalism rejected many foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier theories of government, such as the Divine Right of Kings, hereditary status, and established religion. Social progressivism, the belief that traditions do not carry any inherit value and social pratices ought to be continously adjusted for the greater benefit of humanity, is a common component of liberal ideology. Fundamental human rights that all liberals support include the right to life, liberty, and property." (Wikipedia) But this is part and parcel of the fear campaign. Evil "libs" that seek to take away your basic freedoms, "libs" that lie, cheat, insult and malign, "libs" that side with terrorists and are anti-American, pro-surrender, "libs" that want American soldiers to die. Fear them! For they are the enemy of pure and noble conservatives, who are honest and forthwith, who seek open dialogue and who safeguard your liberties. Its all vile political rhetoric, and its embarassing it has found its way into this forum. By the way, you could reverse this and end up with something just as vile, a war where "evil conservatives" battle "noble liberals". Its the same thing. Shameful. And evil. moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
