Ho-hum -we've been here before- a lot- with similar 'discussions' of Alan's work. How much of Alan's work have you seen Bob? Do you have any idea of the context of his work? Did you even attempt get some sort of wider picture of what he does before you attacked him on the basis of a single piece? I understand that it is in the nature of a discussion list that people come to it afresh, that work is posted without any obvious signposts or easy context but that does place a responsibility on the critic to *inform* themselves before rushing into judgement. If you'd cited, perhaps, a couple of Alan's movies, some of his music/sound work, some of the poetry ( or even given some indication that you'd *bothered* to find out that a *body* of widely varying work exists & that some of the admitted peculiarities of the piece you attacked could begin to be understood against that background) & *then* made a reasoned case for why it's somehow unworthy then I might have disagreed but you'd have fulfilled your responsibilites as an commentator & we'd have a starting point for a genuine discussion. michael
--- bob catchpole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Karen, > > "Total subjectivity" is the unavoidable condition of > babies... I find in an adult, the relentless spew is > obnoxious egoism... James Joyce seemed to have done > the subjective voice so much better 90 years ago... > > Bob > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: karen blissett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed > creativity <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, 17 October, 2007 2:08:23 AM > Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] no > > > >I believe this is solipsism run riot... always > ending up its own arse.... How about an effort at > clarity, simplicity and beauty?... the qualities of > the best ideas in art, science, philosophy etc?... > > Aha, > > > Are you asking Alan to ignore his subjective voice, > mutate away into a realm of modernist invisibility. > A sliding from personal and intuitive politick to a > static non-fluid essence of accepted poise. > > His language and functions antagonise the ideals and > pedagogical, crumbly mono-theisms that choke us into > accepting the norm. > > > Perhaps his voice is performance, a noise that > thrives on the energy of being, this perpetual state > of being is irrational, illogical and engulfed in > total subjectivity. > > Surely total subjectivity is a form simplicity in > its own right and therefore a kin to beauty, thus > flouting the lies of science with impunity and > simultaneously freeing the voice and mind from the > bondage of unreality or our presumed realities. > > > Formal concerns are not in any way pure, purity is > imaginary, transparent and subjective, as is beauty. > > In a previous life, Plato believed that he had been > a bush. Pythagoras saw a similarity between the > substance of his brain and his own semen. As far as > I a concerned, how Alan expounds his noise is his > own business and creative choice. > > > I may not always agree with the content but I do > agree with the context :-) > > karen > > > > On 10/16/07, bob catchpole < > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Renee, > > I'm all for sharing ideas, insights, inspirations... > I was objecting to willful obfuscation... What ideas > are are evolving here?... > > > "the avatartist are all space, all time, visible, > invisible, > transparent, > translucent, of here and there opaque, they murmur > we are all > avatartist, > are of saying nothing, whispering nothing, murmuring > nothing, all in > the > true world. the avatartist are writing this, us, > them, there, here, > now, > then, they are writing > this-us-them-there-here-now-then, they are > writing > and writing, they are writing nothing...." > > I believe this is solipsism run riot... always > ending up its own arse.... How about an effort at > clarity, simplicity and beauty?... the qualities of > the best ideas in art, science, philosophy etc?... > > > Bob > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Renee Turner < > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed > creativity <[email protected] > > > Sent: Tuesday, 16 October, 2007 8:33:29 AM > Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] no > > Hi Alan, > > I also appreciate your posts and watching your ideas > evolve. So, as > far as I'm concerned, keep them coming. > > > One of the things I like about this list is that > people can present > things in process. To me, it's the very spirit of > netbehaviour :-) > > best, > > Renee > > www.geuzen.org > On 15 Oct 2007, at 15:55, Alan Sondheim wrote: > > > > > > > no it's not bullshit; I'm working through > ontologies and > > epistemologies of > > avatars/the virtual, using both formal topology > and Buddhist > > > philosophy, > > specifically several works by Nagarjuna as well as > the > > Hevajratantra and > > Visuddhimaggha. Terms like the true world > reference emptiness and the > > absence of worlding, 'gathering' references > aggregrates, and > filtering > > comes from things I've written before on > inscription. Since you've > > called > > it bullshit, I really don't want to engage in a > debate about its > > merits > > and if Marc wants I'll desist here, but from my > end (and for that > > > matter > > the reading of other people I respect) I'm on to > something and want > to > > follow it through; certainly it's relevant > literally to netbehaviour. > > > > - Alan > > > > > > ====================================================================== > > > = > > Work on YouTube, blog at > http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel > > 718-813-3285. > > Webpage directory http://www.asondheim.org > . Email: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for > theory; also > check > > WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on > books, cds, > > performance, > > dvds, etc. > > > ============================================================= > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NetBehaviour mailing list > > [email protected] > > > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > > [email protected] > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > > > > > > > > > > For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit > Yahoo! For Good this month. > > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected] > > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there > knows the answer. 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