I absolutely agree Daniel. I opened a very important bug reporting concerning JFX performance on iPhone which currently prevents using JavaFX (and RoboVM) to build apps for the iPhone (https://javafx-jira.kenai.com/browse/RT-31453) this bug report is open since 3(!) month! How shall the community build things for iOS if a very base feature (bug) is not fixed by Oracles core team??? It’s a very bad sign for engaged developers outside Oracle!
So maybe we should say good by to the legacy of SUN and use web technologies like JQuery, ExtJS, … with real community power and without an US company who sees only money and legal issues. Maybe Larry loves to spend millions of dollars to win a boat race and develop experimental „iPads“ rather then spend their time and money to develop a technology with could be the base for ALL products, on Desktop, embedded space, mobile, watches, … Cheers, Tobi Am 30.09.2013 um 10:39 schrieb Daniel Zwolenski <zon...@gmail.com>: > The lack of information on iOS/Android is a major bummer, but this also > highlights a deeper problem here. > > We have a situation where Oracle won't talk to this community because the > topic is important, it's too big a game changer for them to comment on. It's > tied in with share prices, and market strategies. > > So won't that be the case for anything *important* going forward? We > "community" members are outsiders and very lowly ranked, well below "real" > customers and even below random punters from the media. There's not even a > way for us to rank bugs and get them attention (even if we provide fixes!). > > What kind of community can this ever be if anything important can't be > discussed here before it's locked in, because it risks Oracle giving up a > commercial edge? Is this then a community only for discussing our favourite > method names for the API and pointing out that an enum constant is missing? > > I can't see any way that this forum provides any significant contributions > back to the platform - the occasional bug fix at best. JIRA is fine for > discussing bugs, method names and little things like that. Any of the real > community initiatives are run completely separate to this forum because > Oracle doesn't want anything to do with them, and all the significant > platform work takes place behind Oracle's closed doors and we only hear about > it after it's a done deal. > > From where I'm standing, the Oracle community concept is fundamentally > flawed, and the root cause is that Oracle just don't get how to interact with > a community. You want to use us but you're not very good at it, you're not > trying to improve (you don't think there's a problem) and ultimately Oracle's > culture won't let you do it properly anyway. The current approach is a little > like a car salesman trying to be your Facebook "friend". > > All the initiatives I got involved with through this forum have gone nowhere > - deployment (auto updating), the early Maven deployment work (which Richard > asked for), the tower defender game (which Richard asked for), the jfx > browser (which Richard asked for), even stuff as simple as JIRA dashboards > (which Richard again asked for). > > All these hit points where they needed Oracle to do their part of it and then > just stalled and then died. This community could have fostered a lot of tools > and efforts, and really propelled JFX into the bigger dev community, but > instead, for me, it has been a constant source of stress and dissatisfaction, > a hinderance and a hurdle. All pain, no gain. > > The only initiatives I actually made work were the JavaFX Maven plugin and > the RoboVM Maven plugin. With both of these I made a conscious decision to > not involve this forum or Oracle. I decided to cludge around platform > shortcomings, rather than work with Oracle to fix it (5 minute fixes would > have saved me days of work). > > That was the only way I could make these initiatives succeed since this forum > is a hinderance to contributing. It gives a false sense that Oracle is > listening and actively supporting the community. To anyone out there wanting > to do something in JFX tool space, I'd say start by leaving this forum and > working out what you can do without any access to the Oracle guys, even if > you make your own code contributions to the platform. Assume you're an > outsider - the cavalry is not coming, you're on your own. > > Given all that I'm walking away from this forum. I was waiting to hear about > the iOS/Android stuff first, but really even if they did announce anything, > it would be a long shot at best (untested, low resources, lack of solid > direction and most likely tied in with some Oracle ADF garbage or similar). > The uncertainty created by Oracle's mixed messages also killed all momentum > on the community RoboVM work. Meanwhile web based stuff is getting stronger, > cleaner and better tool support at an exponential rate, including in the > mobile space. > > If JavaFX one day actually provides a usable platform for non-Oracle > entrenched customers, and the developer world notices, I'll certainly > consider it. I reckon I'll hear about that through the usual tech media > channels first, rather than through here though. As Oracle themselves pointed > out at the 2012 JavaOne session the smart money is on web based stuff (check > out backbone.js and marionette.js for a desktop-like coding experience, not > bad and will get better faster than JFX improves). > > On that note, the JavaFX Maven plugin is about to go into decay mode. It > needs to be updated to work on Maven 3.1 (some libraries have changed from > 3.0) and there are a number of bugs and feature requests building up that > I've been ignoring. I have no incentive to do any of this so it will > unfortunately just rot. If anyone wants to pick it up, let me know (you need > a few free hours a week just to maintain it). I'm picking up stumps and > moving on. > > I also have the access rights for the openjfx Maven repo on Sonatype (needed > to deploy to Maven central). I imagine Sonatype would grant this access to > others if you apply and make a case for it, but if anyone wants to do this > let me know and I can notify sonatype to give you access and save you some > hassles. > > I think Niklas has the RoboVM Maven Plugin sorted now and can do enhancements > on that but I'm sure if anyone wanted to help him out he wouldn't say no. > > Cheers, > Dan > > > > On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 5:04 PM, Tobias Bley <t...@ultramixer.com> wrote: > I don’t understand why „all“ this people who needs JavaFX on iOS/Android does > not tell it Oracles management. And I don’t understand why all this people > use their time to develop all this demos and Rasp.PI stuff. Who needs it? Why > don’t we develop base stuff like iOS skins, Android skins, iOS/Android > widgets, RoboVM for Android, RoboVM using OpenJDK, … I really love useful > stuff like the „JavaFX maven plugin“ or the „AquaFX“ project. That kind of > development we need! > > Best, > Tobi > > > > Am 30.09.2013 um 08:50 schrieb Felix Bembrick <felix.bembr...@gmail.com>: > > > No, you are *not* the only one. We *all* need it. In fact, without it > > happening soon, JavaFX is already dead. > > > > But let's not give up yet. Perhaps it's closer than we know. I am a glass > > half full kinda guy :-) > > > >> On 30 Sep 2013, at 16:40, Tobias Bley <t...@ultramixer.com> wrote: > >> > >> I suppose „legal reasons“…. > >> > >> For me it’s very frustrating to see every year the same procedure: > >> JavaFX-iOS/Android related tracks were canceled - „nerd“ stuff like > >> Rasp.PI, DukePad & Co were announced. Maybe I’m really the only one who > >> needs JavaFX on mobile to use JavaFX on desktop as well… :( > >> > >> > >> > >>> Am 29.09.2013 um 18:13 schrieb Jeff Martin <j...@reportmill.com>: > >>> > >>> It seems the JFX on iOS/Android were cancelled at the last moment. I > >>> tried to keep expectations low this year, but I admit I harbored secret > >>> hopes based on those sessions (a few embarrassingly optimistic > >>> conversations with clients notwithstanding). > >>> > >>> Last week Tomas offered this: > >>> > >>>> about cancelled sessions please contact Mr. JavaOne > >>>> stephen.c...@oracle.com I believe he will give satisfactory answer. > >>> > >>> I'd like to take him up on that satisfactory offer. Also, can we run the > >>> name "DukePad" by marketing again? > >>> > >>> :-) > >>> > >>> jeff > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Sep 29, 2013, at 12:12 AM, Daniel Zwolenski <zon...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> The sessions aren't up yet from the looks of it. It would be great to > >>>> get an overall roundup of any new announcements or directions in any > >>>> case. Given this is the developer community network it would make sense > >>>> in my mind to highlight stuff like that in here. > >>>> > >>>> For me, I'd love it if someone could quickly sum up any announcements or > >>>> sessions made about JavaFX for iOS, Android or in the deployment space? > >>>> > >>>> What happened at the sessions Tobi highlighted before > >>>> (http://blog.software4java.com/?p=97), did anyone go to these and able > >>>> to give us some info? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> On 27/09/2013, at 7:07 AM, Richard Bair <richard.b...@oracle.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> The sessions, I think, are all being uploaded to Parley's > >>>>> (http://www.parleys.com), although I don't see any content there yet > >>>>> (not sure how long it will take them to post-process, but usually it is > >>>>> pretty fast). > >>>>> > >>>>> Richard > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Sep 26, 2013, at 2:00 PM, Daniel Zwolenski <zon...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Has anyone done or seen any good roundups (text or video) of the > >>>>>> JavaOne sessions relating to javafx? > >> > >
