Pardon? It’s not allowed to discuss with the JavaFX community the future of the technology and community in their mailing list??? What’s up Hervé?
Am 30.09.2013 um 12:03 schrieb Hervé Girod <herve.gi...@gmail.com>: > It's not the place to talk politics here. If you want to channel your > frustration, do it in your blog if you have one. > > Hervé > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 30 sept. 2013, at 11:14, Tobias Bley <t...@ultramixer.com> wrote: >> >> I absolutely agree Daniel. I opened a very important bug reporting >> concerning JFX performance on iPhone which currently prevents using JavaFX >> (and RoboVM) to build apps for the iPhone >> (https://javafx-jira.kenai.com/browse/RT-31453) this bug report is open >> since 3(!) month! How shall the community build things for iOS if a very >> base feature (bug) is not fixed by Oracles core team??? It’s a very bad sign >> for engaged developers outside Oracle! >> >> So maybe we should say good by to the legacy of SUN and use web technologies >> like JQuery, ExtJS, … with real community power and without an US company >> who sees only money and legal issues. >> >> Maybe Larry loves to spend millions of dollars to win a boat race and >> develop experimental „iPads“ rather then spend their time and money to >> develop a technology with could be the base for ALL products, on Desktop, >> embedded space, mobile, watches, … >> >> Cheers, >> Tobi >> >> >> >>> Am 30.09.2013 um 10:39 schrieb Daniel Zwolenski <zon...@gmail.com>: >>> >>> The lack of information on iOS/Android is a major bummer, but this also >>> highlights a deeper problem here. >>> >>> We have a situation where Oracle won't talk to this community because the >>> topic is important, it's too big a game changer for them to comment on. >>> It's tied in with share prices, and market strategies. >>> >>> So won't that be the case for anything *important* going forward? We >>> "community" members are outsiders and very lowly ranked, well below "real" >>> customers and even below random punters from the media. There's not even a >>> way for us to rank bugs and get them attention (even if we provide fixes!). >>> >>> >>> What kind of community can this ever be if anything important can't be >>> discussed here before it's locked in, because it risks Oracle giving up a >>> commercial edge? Is this then a community only for discussing our favourite >>> method names for the API and pointing out that an enum constant is missing? >>> >>> I can't see any way that this forum provides any significant contributions >>> back to the platform - the occasional bug fix at best. JIRA is fine for >>> discussing bugs, method names and little things like that. Any of the real >>> community initiatives are run completely separate to this forum because >>> Oracle doesn't want anything to do with them, and all the significant >>> platform work takes place behind Oracle's closed doors and we only hear >>> about it after it's a done deal. >>> >>> From where I'm standing, the Oracle community concept is fundamentally >>> flawed, and the root cause is that Oracle just don't get how to interact >>> with a community. You want to use us but you're not very good at it, you're >>> not trying to improve (you don't think there's a problem) and ultimately >>> Oracle's culture won't let you do it properly anyway. The current approach >>> is a little like a car salesman trying to be your Facebook "friend". >>> >>> All the initiatives I got involved with through this forum have gone >>> nowhere - deployment (auto updating), the early Maven deployment work >>> (which Richard asked for), the tower defender game (which Richard asked >>> for), the jfx browser (which Richard asked for), even stuff as simple as >>> JIRA dashboards (which Richard again asked for). >>> >>> All these hit points where they needed Oracle to do their part of it and >>> then just stalled and then died. This community could have fostered a lot >>> of tools and efforts, and really propelled JFX into the bigger dev >>> community, but instead, for me, it has been a constant source of stress and >>> dissatisfaction, a hinderance and a hurdle. All pain, no gain. >>> >>> The only initiatives I actually made work were the JavaFX Maven plugin and >>> the RoboVM Maven plugin. With both of these I made a conscious decision to >>> not involve this forum or Oracle. I decided to cludge around platform >>> shortcomings, rather than work with Oracle to fix it (5 minute fixes would >>> have saved me days of work). >>> >>> That was the only way I could make these initiatives succeed since this >>> forum is a hinderance to contributing. It gives a false sense that Oracle >>> is listening and actively supporting the community. To anyone out there >>> wanting to do something in JFX tool space, I'd say start by leaving this >>> forum and working out what you can do without any access to the Oracle >>> guys, even if you make your own code contributions to the platform. Assume >>> you're an outsider - the cavalry is not coming, you're on your own. >>> >>> Given all that I'm walking away from this forum. I was waiting to hear >>> about the iOS/Android stuff first, but really even if they did announce >>> anything, it would be a long shot at best (untested, low resources, lack of >>> solid direction and most likely tied in with some Oracle ADF garbage or >>> similar). The uncertainty created by Oracle's mixed messages also killed >>> all momentum on the community RoboVM work. Meanwhile web based stuff is >>> getting stronger, cleaner and better tool support at an exponential rate, >>> including in the mobile space. >>> >>> If JavaFX one day actually provides a usable platform for non-Oracle >>> entrenched customers, and the developer world notices, I'll certainly >>> consider it. I reckon I'll hear about that through the usual tech media >>> channels first, rather than through here though. As Oracle themselves >>> pointed out at the 2012 JavaOne session the smart money is on web based >>> stuff (check out backbone.js and marionette.js for a desktop-like coding >>> experience, not bad and will get better faster than JFX improves). >>> >>> On that note, the JavaFX Maven plugin is about to go into decay mode. It >>> needs to be updated to work on Maven 3.1 (some libraries have changed from >>> 3.0) and there are a number of bugs and feature requests building up that >>> I've been ignoring. I have no incentive to do any of this so it will >>> unfortunately just rot. If anyone wants to pick it up, let me know (you >>> need a few free hours a week just to maintain it). I'm picking up stumps >>> and moving on. >>> >>> I also have the access rights for the openjfx Maven repo on Sonatype >>> (needed to deploy to Maven central). I imagine Sonatype would grant this >>> access to others if you apply and make a case for it, but if anyone wants >>> to do this let me know and I can notify sonatype to give you access and >>> save you some hassles. >>> >>> I think Niklas has the RoboVM Maven Plugin sorted now and can do >>> enhancements on that but I'm sure if anyone wanted to help him out he >>> wouldn't say no. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Dan >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 5:04 PM, Tobias Bley <t...@ultramixer.com> wrote: >>> I don’t understand why „all“ this people who needs JavaFX on iOS/Android >>> does not tell it Oracles management. And I don’t understand why all this >>> people use their time to develop all this demos and Rasp.PI stuff. Who >>> needs it? Why don’t we develop base stuff like iOS skins, Android skins, >>> iOS/Android widgets, RoboVM for Android, RoboVM using OpenJDK, … I really >>> love useful stuff like the „JavaFX maven plugin“ or the „AquaFX“ project. >>> That kind of development we need! >>> >>> Best, >>> Tobi >>> >>> >>> >>>> Am 30.09.2013 um 08:50 schrieb Felix Bembrick <felix.bembr...@gmail.com>: >>>> >>>> No, you are *not* the only one. We *all* need it. In fact, without it >>>> happening soon, JavaFX is already dead. >>>> >>>> But let's not give up yet. Perhaps it's closer than we know. I am a glass >>>> half full kinda guy :-) >>>> >>>>> On 30 Sep 2013, at 16:40, Tobias Bley <t...@ultramixer.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I suppose „legal reasons“…. >>>>> >>>>> For me it’s very frustrating to see every year the same procedure: >>>>> JavaFX-iOS/Android related tracks were canceled - „nerd“ stuff like >>>>> Rasp.PI, DukePad & Co were announced. Maybe I’m really the only one who >>>>> needs JavaFX on mobile to use JavaFX on desktop as well… :( >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Am 29.09.2013 um 18:13 schrieb Jeff Martin <j...@reportmill.com>: >>>>>> >>>>>> It seems the JFX on iOS/Android were cancelled at the last moment. I >>>>>> tried to keep expectations low this year, but I admit I harbored secret >>>>>> hopes based on those sessions (a few embarrassingly optimistic >>>>>> conversations with clients notwithstanding). >>>>>> >>>>>> Last week Tomas offered this: >>>>>> >>>>>>> about cancelled sessions please contact Mr. JavaOne >>>>>>> stephen.c...@oracle.com I believe he will give satisfactory answer. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'd like to take him up on that satisfactory offer. Also, can we run the >>>>>> name "DukePad" by marketing again? >>>>>> >>>>>> :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> jeff >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sep 29, 2013, at 12:12 AM, Daniel Zwolenski <zon...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The sessions aren't up yet from the looks of it. It would be great to >>>>>>> get an overall roundup of any new announcements or directions in any >>>>>>> case. Given this is the developer community network it would make sense >>>>>>> in my mind to highlight stuff like that in here. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For me, I'd love it if someone could quickly sum up any announcements >>>>>>> or sessions made about JavaFX for iOS, Android or in the deployment >>>>>>> space? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What happened at the sessions Tobi highlighted before >>>>>>> (http://blog.software4java.com/?p=97), did anyone go to these and able >>>>>>> to give us some info? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 27/09/2013, at 7:07 AM, Richard Bair <richard.b...@oracle.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The sessions, I think, are all being uploaded to Parley's >>>>>>>> (http://www.parleys.com), although I don't see any content there yet >>>>>>>> (not sure how long it will take them to post-process, but usually it >>>>>>>> is pretty fast). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Richard >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sep 26, 2013, at 2:00 PM, Daniel Zwolenski <zon...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Has anyone done or seen any good roundups (text or video) of the >>>>>>>>> JavaOne sessions relating to javafx? >>
