Hey, I am trying to hose-down the political talk! I encourage everyone to take a deep breath and focus on the many positives of the awesome technology that is JavaFX :-)
On 30 September 2013 20:03, Hervé Girod <herve.gi...@gmail.com> wrote: > It's not the place to talk politics here. If you want to channel your > frustration, do it in your blog if you have one. > > Hervé > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 30 sept. 2013, at 11:14, Tobias Bley <t...@ultramixer.com> wrote: > > > > I absolutely agree Daniel. I opened a very important bug reporting > concerning JFX performance on iPhone which currently prevents using JavaFX > (and RoboVM) to build apps for the iPhone ( > https://javafx-jira.kenai.com/browse/RT-31453) this bug report is open > since 3(!) month! How shall the community build things for iOS if a very > base feature (bug) is not fixed by Oracles core team??? It’s a very bad > sign for engaged developers outside Oracle! > > > > So maybe we should say good by to the legacy of SUN and use web > technologies like JQuery, ExtJS, … with real community power and without an > US company who sees only money and legal issues. > > > > Maybe Larry loves to spend millions of dollars to win a boat race and > develop experimental „iPads“ rather then spend their time and money to > develop a technology with could be the base for ALL products, on Desktop, > embedded space, mobile, watches, … > > > > Cheers, > > Tobi > > > > > > > >> Am 30.09.2013 um 10:39 schrieb Daniel Zwolenski <zon...@gmail.com>: > >> > >> The lack of information on iOS/Android is a major bummer, but this also > highlights a deeper problem here. > >> > >> We have a situation where Oracle won't talk to this community because > the topic is important, it's too big a game changer for them to comment on. > It's tied in with share prices, and market strategies. > >> > >> So won't that be the case for anything *important* going forward? We > "community" members are outsiders and very lowly ranked, well below "real" > customers and even below random punters from the media. There's not even a > way for us to rank bugs and get them attention (even if we provide fixes!). > >> > >> What kind of community can this ever be if anything important can't be > discussed here before it's locked in, because it risks Oracle giving up a > commercial edge? Is this then a community only for discussing our favourite > method names for the API and pointing out that an enum constant is missing? > >> > >> I can't see any way that this forum provides any significant > contributions back to the platform - the occasional bug fix at best. JIRA > is fine for discussing bugs, method names and little things like that. Any > of the real community initiatives are run completely separate to this forum > because Oracle doesn't want anything to do with them, and all the > significant platform work takes place behind Oracle's closed doors and we > only hear about it after it's a done deal. > >> > >> From where I'm standing, the Oracle community concept is fundamentally > flawed, and the root cause is that Oracle just don't get how to interact > with a community. You want to use us but you're not very good at it, you're > not trying to improve (you don't think there's a problem) and ultimately > Oracle's culture won't let you do it properly anyway. The current approach > is a little like a car salesman trying to be your Facebook "friend". > >> > >> All the initiatives I got involved with through this forum have gone > nowhere - deployment (auto updating), the early Maven deployment work > (which Richard asked for), the tower defender game (which Richard asked > for), the jfx browser (which Richard asked for), even stuff as simple as > JIRA dashboards (which Richard again asked for). > >> > >> All these hit points where they needed Oracle to do their part of it > and then just stalled and then died. This community could have fostered a > lot of tools and efforts, and really propelled JFX into the bigger dev > community, but instead, for me, it has been a constant source of stress and > dissatisfaction, a hinderance and a hurdle. All pain, no gain. > >> > >> The only initiatives I actually made work were the JavaFX Maven plugin > and the RoboVM Maven plugin. With both of these I made a conscious decision > to not involve this forum or Oracle. I decided to cludge around platform > shortcomings, rather than work with Oracle to fix it (5 minute fixes would > have saved me days of work). > >> > >> That was the only way I could make these initiatives succeed since this > forum is a hinderance to contributing. It gives a false sense that Oracle > is listening and actively supporting the community. To anyone out there > wanting to do something in JFX tool space, I'd say start by leaving this > forum and working out what you can do without any access to the Oracle > guys, even if you make your own code contributions to the platform. Assume > you're an outsider - the cavalry is not coming, you're on your own. > >> > >> Given all that I'm walking away from this forum. I was waiting to hear > about the iOS/Android stuff first, but really even if they did announce > anything, it would be a long shot at best (untested, low resources, lack of > solid direction and most likely tied in with some Oracle ADF garbage or > similar). The uncertainty created by Oracle's mixed messages also killed > all momentum on the community RoboVM work. Meanwhile web based stuff is > getting stronger, cleaner and better tool support at an exponential rate, > including in the mobile space. > >> > >> If JavaFX one day actually provides a usable platform for non-Oracle > entrenched customers, and the developer world notices, I'll certainly > consider it. I reckon I'll hear about that through the usual tech media > channels first, rather than through here though. As Oracle themselves > pointed out at the 2012 JavaOne session the smart money is on web based > stuff (check out backbone.js and marionette.js for a desktop-like coding > experience, not bad and will get better faster than JFX improves). > >> > >> On that note, the JavaFX Maven plugin is about to go into decay mode. > It needs to be updated to work on Maven 3.1 (some libraries have changed > from 3.0) and there are a number of bugs and feature requests building up > that I've been ignoring. I have no incentive to do any of this so it will > unfortunately just rot. If anyone wants to pick it up, let me know (you > need a few free hours a week just to maintain it). I'm picking up stumps > and moving on. > >> > >> I also have the access rights for the openjfx Maven repo on Sonatype > (needed to deploy to Maven central). I imagine Sonatype would grant this > access to others if you apply and make a case for it, but if anyone wants > to do this let me know and I can notify sonatype to give you access and > save you some hassles. > >> > >> I think Niklas has the RoboVM Maven Plugin sorted now and can do > enhancements on that but I'm sure if anyone wanted to help him out he > wouldn't say no. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Dan > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 5:04 PM, Tobias Bley <t...@ultramixer.com> > wrote: > >> I don’t understand why „all“ this people who needs JavaFX on > iOS/Android does not tell it Oracles management. And I don’t understand why > all this people use their time to develop all this demos and Rasp.PI stuff. > Who needs it? Why don’t we develop base stuff like iOS skins, Android > skins, iOS/Android widgets, RoboVM for Android, RoboVM using OpenJDK, … I > really love useful stuff like the „JavaFX maven plugin“ or the „AquaFX“ > project. That kind of development we need! > >> > >> Best, > >> Tobi > >> > >> > >> > >>> Am 30.09.2013 um 08:50 schrieb Felix Bembrick < > felix.bembr...@gmail.com>: > >>> > >>> No, you are *not* the only one. We *all* need it. In fact, without it > happening soon, JavaFX is already dead. > >>> > >>> But let's not give up yet. Perhaps it's closer than we know. I am a > glass half full kinda guy :-) > >>> > >>>> On 30 Sep 2013, at 16:40, Tobias Bley <t...@ultramixer.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> I suppose „legal reasons“…. > >>>> > >>>> For me it’s very frustrating to see every year the same procedure: > JavaFX-iOS/Android related tracks were canceled - „nerd“ stuff like > Rasp.PI, DukePad & Co were announced. Maybe I’m really the only one who > needs JavaFX on mobile to use JavaFX on desktop as well… :( > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Am 29.09.2013 um 18:13 schrieb Jeff Martin <j...@reportmill.com>: > >>>>> > >>>>> It seems the JFX on iOS/Android were cancelled at the last moment. I > tried to keep expectations low this year, but I admit I harbored secret > hopes based on those sessions (a few embarrassingly optimistic > conversations with clients notwithstanding). > >>>>> > >>>>> Last week Tomas offered this: > >>>>> > >>>>>> about cancelled sessions please contact Mr. JavaOne > stephen.c...@oracle.com I believe he will give satisfactory answer. > >>>>> > >>>>> I'd like to take him up on that satisfactory offer. Also, can we run > the name "DukePad" by marketing again? > >>>>> > >>>>> :-) > >>>>> > >>>>> jeff > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Sep 29, 2013, at 12:12 AM, Daniel Zwolenski <zon...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The sessions aren't up yet from the looks of it. It would be great > to get an overall roundup of any new announcements or directions in any > case. Given this is the developer community network it would make sense in > my mind to highlight stuff like that in here. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> For me, I'd love it if someone could quickly sum up any > announcements or sessions made about JavaFX for iOS, Android or in the > deployment space? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> What happened at the sessions Tobi highlighted before ( > http://blog.software4java.com/?p=97), did anyone go to these and able to > give us some info? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 27/09/2013, at 7:07 AM, Richard Bair <richard.b...@oracle.com> > wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The sessions, I think, are all being uploaded to Parley's ( > http://www.parleys.com), although I don't see any content there yet (not > sure how long it will take them to post-process, but usually it is pretty > fast). > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Richard > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Sep 26, 2013, at 2:00 PM, Daniel Zwolenski <zon...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Has anyone done or seen any good roundups (text or video) of the > JavaOne sessions relating to javafx? > > >
