Yes, perhaps Oracle have not yet grasped the degree of importance of actively engaging the community in a project that is "supposed" to be community-based.
I suspect the limited resources of the JavaFX team are working flat-out just to get new versions released and to meet the targets for JFX8 and that "engaging the community" is suffering as a result. Who knows, maybe some of that hard work is on porting JavaFX to modern platforms??? On 30 September 2013 19:53, Tobias Bley <t...@ultramixer.com> wrote: > I absolutely agree that it’s very important to release a stable solution. > BUT: There is a ARM based version for embedded space available as beta > version since a long time… so it’s important to TALK to the community. > Otherwise Java and JavaFX == Oracle. No need to open source it. > > > Am 30.09.2013 um 11:48 schrieb Felix Bembrick <felix.bembr...@gmail.com>: > > I urge everyone *not* to walk away from JavaFX, at least not yet. > > As has been pointed out, there were several sessions scheduled for J1 > relating to JavaFX on mobiles and tablets that were only cancelled at the > very last minute. I see this as a definite positive. To me that says that > they truly believed they would be able to have something for those sessions > but for whatever reason were not able to get across the finish line. I > would have been far more worried if they had never announced such sessions > because then we would know for certain that they do not have any concrete > plans in this area. > > I am optimistic that a *big* announcement is just around the corner. Of > course J1 would have been the perfect place for such an announcement but > can you imagine the damage to brand Java/JavaFX had they released a > half-baked, bug-ridden, slow-as-a-dog implementation of JavaFX on iOS or > Android? Many developers would have walked away from client-side Java > forever and the press would have gone into meltdown ridiculing the > technology. > > If Oracle really does have something in the pipeline for iOS/Android then > they are *absolutely right* to get it *perfect* before they let it loose > on the public. > > Having said this though and as starry-eyed as I am, even I cannot wait > forever.... > > > On 30 September 2013 19:14, Tobias Bley <t...@ultramixer.com> wrote: > >> I absolutely agree Daniel. I opened a very important bug reporting >> concerning JFX performance on iPhone which currently prevents using JavaFX >> (and RoboVM) to build apps for the iPhone ( >> https://javafx-jira.kenai.com/browse/RT-31453) this bug report is open >> since 3(!) month! How shall the community build things for iOS if a very >> base feature (bug) is not fixed by Oracles core team??? It’s a very bad >> sign for engaged developers outside Oracle! >> >> So maybe we should say good by to the legacy of SUN and use web >> technologies like JQuery, ExtJS, … with real community power and without an >> US company who sees only money and legal issues. >> >> Maybe Larry loves to spend millions of dollars to win a boat race and >> develop experimental „iPads“ rather then spend their time and money to >> develop a technology with could be the base for ALL products, on Desktop, >> embedded space, mobile, watches, … >> >> Cheers, >> Tobi >> >> >> >> Am 30.09.2013 um 10:39 schrieb Daniel Zwolenski <zon...@gmail.com>: >> >> The lack of information on iOS/Android is a major bummer, but this also >> highlights a deeper problem here. >> >> We have a situation where Oracle won't talk to this community because the >> topic is important, it's too big a game changer for them to comment on. >> It's tied in with share prices, and market strategies. >> >> So won't that be the case for anything *important* going forward? We >> "community" members are outsiders and very lowly ranked, well below "real" >> customers and even below random punters from the media. There's not even a >> way for us to rank bugs and get them attention (even if we provide fixes!). >> >> >> What kind of community can this ever be if anything important can't be >> discussed here before it's locked in, because it risks Oracle giving up a >> commercial edge? Is this then a community only for discussing our favourite >> method names for the API and pointing out that an enum constant is missing? >> >> I can't see any way that this forum provides any significant >> contributions back to the platform - the occasional bug fix at best. JIRA >> is fine for discussing bugs, method names and little things like that. Any >> of the real community initiatives are run completely separate to this forum >> because Oracle doesn't want anything to do with them, and all the >> significant platform work takes place behind Oracle's closed doors and we >> only hear about it after it's a done deal. >> >> From where I'm standing, the Oracle community concept is fundamentally >> flawed, and the root cause is that Oracle just don't get how to interact >> with a community. You want to use us but you're not very good at it, you're >> not trying to improve (you don't think there's a problem) and ultimately >> Oracle's culture won't let you do it properly anyway. The current approach >> is a little like a car salesman trying to be your Facebook "friend". >> >> All the initiatives I got involved with through this forum have gone >> nowhere - deployment (auto updating), the early Maven deployment work >> (which Richard asked for), the tower defender game (which Richard asked >> for), the jfx browser (which Richard asked for), even stuff as simple as >> JIRA dashboards (which Richard again asked for). >> >> All these hit points where they needed Oracle to do their part of it and >> then just stalled and then died. This community could have fostered a lot >> of tools and efforts, and really propelled JFX into the bigger dev >> community, but instead, for me, it has been a constant source of stress and >> dissatisfaction, a hinderance and a hurdle. All pain, no gain. >> >> The only initiatives I actually made work were the JavaFX Maven plugin >> and the RoboVM Maven plugin. With both of these I made a conscious decision >> to not involve this forum or Oracle. I decided to cludge around platform >> shortcomings, rather than work with Oracle to fix it (5 minute fixes would >> have saved me days of work). >> >> That was the only way I could make these initiatives succeed since this >> forum is a hinderance to contributing. It gives a false sense that Oracle >> is listening and actively supporting the community. To anyone out there >> wanting to do something in JFX tool space, I'd say start by leaving this >> forum and working out what you can do without any access to the Oracle >> guys, even if you make your own code contributions to the platform. Assume >> you're an outsider - the cavalry is not coming, you're on your own. >> >> Given all that I'm walking away from this forum. I was waiting to hear >> about the iOS/Android stuff first, but really even if they did announce >> anything, it would be a long shot at best (untested, low resources, lack of >> solid direction and most likely tied in with some Oracle ADF garbage or >> similar). The uncertainty created by Oracle's mixed messages also killed >> all momentum on the community RoboVM work. Meanwhile web based stuff is >> getting stronger, cleaner and better tool support at an exponential rate, >> including in the mobile space. >> >> If JavaFX one day actually provides a usable platform for non-Oracle >> entrenched customers, and the developer world notices, I'll certainly >> consider it. I reckon I'll hear about that through the usual tech media >> channels first, rather than through here though. As Oracle themselves >> pointed out at the 2012 JavaOne session the smart money is on web based >> stuff (check out backbone.js and marionette.js for a desktop-like coding >> experience, not bad and will get better faster than JFX improves). >> >> On that note, the JavaFX Maven plugin is about to go into decay mode. It >> needs to be updated to work on Maven 3.1 (some libraries have changed from >> 3.0) and there are a number of bugs and feature requests building up that >> I've been ignoring. I have no incentive to do any of this so it will >> unfortunately just rot. If anyone wants to pick it up, let me know (you >> need a few free hours a week just to maintain it). I'm picking up stumps >> and moving on. >> >> I also have the access rights for the openjfx Maven repo on Sonatype >> (needed to deploy to Maven central). I imagine Sonatype would grant this >> access to others if you apply and make a case for it, but if anyone wants >> to do this let me know and I can notify sonatype to give you access and >> save you some hassles. >> >> I think Niklas has the RoboVM Maven Plugin sorted now and can do >> enhancements on that but I'm sure if anyone wanted to help him out he >> wouldn't say no. >> >> Cheers, >> Dan >> >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 5:04 PM, Tobias Bley <t...@ultramixer.com> wrote: >> >>> I don’t understand why „all“ this people who needs JavaFX on iOS/Android >>> does not tell it Oracles management. And I don’t understand why all this >>> people use their time to develop all this demos and Rasp.PI stuff. Who >>> needs it? Why don’t we develop base stuff like iOS skins, Android skins, >>> iOS/Android widgets, RoboVM for Android, RoboVM using OpenJDK, … I really >>> love useful stuff like the „JavaFX maven plugin“ or the „AquaFX“ project. >>> That kind of development we need! >>> >>> Best, >>> Tobi >>> >>> >>> >>> Am 30.09.2013 um 08:50 schrieb Felix Bembrick <felix.bembr...@gmail.com >>> >: >>> >>> > No, you are *not* the only one. We *all* need it. In fact, without it >>> happening soon, JavaFX is already dead. >>> > >>> > But let's not give up yet. Perhaps it's closer than we know. I am a >>> glass half full kinda guy :-) >>> > >>> >> On 30 Sep 2013, at 16:40, Tobias Bley <t...@ultramixer.com> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> I suppose „legal reasons“…. >>> >> >>> >> For me it’s very frustrating to see every year the same procedure: >>> JavaFX-iOS/Android related tracks were canceled - „nerd“ stuff like >>> Rasp.PI, DukePad & Co were announced. Maybe I’m really the only one who >>> needs JavaFX on mobile to use JavaFX on desktop as well… :( >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> Am 29.09.2013 um 18:13 schrieb Jeff Martin <j...@reportmill.com>: >>> >>> >>> >>> It seems the JFX on iOS/Android were cancelled at the last moment. I >>> tried to keep expectations low this year, but I admit I harbored secret >>> hopes based on those sessions (a few embarrassingly optimistic >>> conversations with clients notwithstanding). >>> >>> >>> >>> Last week Tomas offered this: >>> >>> >>> >>>> about cancelled sessions please contact Mr. JavaOne >>> stephen.c...@oracle.com I believe he will give satisfactory answer. >>> >>> >>> >>> I'd like to take him up on that satisfactory offer. Also, can we run >>> the name "DukePad" by marketing again? >>> >>> >>> >>> :-) >>> >>> >>> >>> jeff >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Sep 29, 2013, at 12:12 AM, Daniel Zwolenski <zon...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>> >>>> The sessions aren't up yet from the looks of it. It would be great >>> to get an overall roundup of any new announcements or directions in any >>> case. Given this is the developer community network it would make sense in >>> my mind to highlight stuff like that in here. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> For me, I'd love it if someone could quickly sum up any >>> announcements or sessions made about JavaFX for iOS, Android or in the >>> deployment space? >>> >>>> >>> >>>> What happened at the sessions Tobi highlighted before ( >>> http://blog.software4java.com/?p=97), did anyone go to these and able >>> to give us some info? >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>>> On 27/09/2013, at 7:07 AM, Richard Bair <richard.b...@oracle.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> The sessions, I think, are all being uploaded to Parley's ( >>> http://www.parleys.com), although I don't see any content there yet >>> (not sure how long it will take them to post-process, but usually it is >>> pretty fast). >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Richard >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>> On Sep 26, 2013, at 2:00 PM, Daniel Zwolenski <zon...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Has anyone done or seen any good roundups (text or video) of the >>> JavaOne sessions relating to javafx? >>> >> >>> >>> >> >> > >
