It's not the place to talk politics here. If you want to channel your frustration, do it in your blog if you have one.
Hervé Sent from my iPhone > On 30 sept. 2013, at 11:14, Tobias Bley <t...@ultramixer.com> wrote: > > I absolutely agree Daniel. I opened a very important bug reporting concerning > JFX performance on iPhone which currently prevents using JavaFX (and RoboVM) > to build apps for the iPhone (https://javafx-jira.kenai.com/browse/RT-31453) > this bug report is open since 3(!) month! How shall the community build > things for iOS if a very base feature (bug) is not fixed by Oracles core > team??? It’s a very bad sign for engaged developers outside Oracle! > > So maybe we should say good by to the legacy of SUN and use web technologies > like JQuery, ExtJS, … with real community power and without an US company who > sees only money and legal issues. > > Maybe Larry loves to spend millions of dollars to win a boat race and develop > experimental „iPads“ rather then spend their time and money to develop a > technology with could be the base for ALL products, on Desktop, embedded > space, mobile, watches, … > > Cheers, > Tobi > > > >> Am 30.09.2013 um 10:39 schrieb Daniel Zwolenski <zon...@gmail.com>: >> >> The lack of information on iOS/Android is a major bummer, but this also >> highlights a deeper problem here. >> >> We have a situation where Oracle won't talk to this community because the >> topic is important, it's too big a game changer for them to comment on. It's >> tied in with share prices, and market strategies. >> >> So won't that be the case for anything *important* going forward? We >> "community" members are outsiders and very lowly ranked, well below "real" >> customers and even below random punters from the media. There's not even a >> way for us to rank bugs and get them attention (even if we provide fixes!). >> >> What kind of community can this ever be if anything important can't be >> discussed here before it's locked in, because it risks Oracle giving up a >> commercial edge? Is this then a community only for discussing our favourite >> method names for the API and pointing out that an enum constant is missing? >> >> I can't see any way that this forum provides any significant contributions >> back to the platform - the occasional bug fix at best. JIRA is fine for >> discussing bugs, method names and little things like that. Any of the real >> community initiatives are run completely separate to this forum because >> Oracle doesn't want anything to do with them, and all the significant >> platform work takes place behind Oracle's closed doors and we only hear >> about it after it's a done deal. >> >> From where I'm standing, the Oracle community concept is fundamentally >> flawed, and the root cause is that Oracle just don't get how to interact >> with a community. You want to use us but you're not very good at it, you're >> not trying to improve (you don't think there's a problem) and ultimately >> Oracle's culture won't let you do it properly anyway. The current approach >> is a little like a car salesman trying to be your Facebook "friend". >> >> All the initiatives I got involved with through this forum have gone nowhere >> - deployment (auto updating), the early Maven deployment work (which Richard >> asked for), the tower defender game (which Richard asked for), the jfx >> browser (which Richard asked for), even stuff as simple as JIRA dashboards >> (which Richard again asked for). >> >> All these hit points where they needed Oracle to do their part of it and >> then just stalled and then died. This community could have fostered a lot of >> tools and efforts, and really propelled JFX into the bigger dev community, >> but instead, for me, it has been a constant source of stress and >> dissatisfaction, a hinderance and a hurdle. All pain, no gain. >> >> The only initiatives I actually made work were the JavaFX Maven plugin and >> the RoboVM Maven plugin. With both of these I made a conscious decision to >> not involve this forum or Oracle. I decided to cludge around platform >> shortcomings, rather than work with Oracle to fix it (5 minute fixes would >> have saved me days of work). >> >> That was the only way I could make these initiatives succeed since this >> forum is a hinderance to contributing. It gives a false sense that Oracle is >> listening and actively supporting the community. To anyone out there wanting >> to do something in JFX tool space, I'd say start by leaving this forum and >> working out what you can do without any access to the Oracle guys, even if >> you make your own code contributions to the platform. Assume you're an >> outsider - the cavalry is not coming, you're on your own. >> >> Given all that I'm walking away from this forum. I was waiting to hear about >> the iOS/Android stuff first, but really even if they did announce anything, >> it would be a long shot at best (untested, low resources, lack of solid >> direction and most likely tied in with some Oracle ADF garbage or similar). >> The uncertainty created by Oracle's mixed messages also killed all momentum >> on the community RoboVM work. Meanwhile web based stuff is getting stronger, >> cleaner and better tool support at an exponential rate, including in the >> mobile space. >> >> If JavaFX one day actually provides a usable platform for non-Oracle >> entrenched customers, and the developer world notices, I'll certainly >> consider it. I reckon I'll hear about that through the usual tech media >> channels first, rather than through here though. As Oracle themselves >> pointed out at the 2012 JavaOne session the smart money is on web based >> stuff (check out backbone.js and marionette.js for a desktop-like coding >> experience, not bad and will get better faster than JFX improves). >> >> On that note, the JavaFX Maven plugin is about to go into decay mode. It >> needs to be updated to work on Maven 3.1 (some libraries have changed from >> 3.0) and there are a number of bugs and feature requests building up that >> I've been ignoring. I have no incentive to do any of this so it will >> unfortunately just rot. If anyone wants to pick it up, let me know (you need >> a few free hours a week just to maintain it). I'm picking up stumps and >> moving on. >> >> I also have the access rights for the openjfx Maven repo on Sonatype (needed >> to deploy to Maven central). I imagine Sonatype would grant this access to >> others if you apply and make a case for it, but if anyone wants to do this >> let me know and I can notify sonatype to give you access and save you some >> hassles. >> >> I think Niklas has the RoboVM Maven Plugin sorted now and can do >> enhancements on that but I'm sure if anyone wanted to help him out he >> wouldn't say no. >> >> Cheers, >> Dan >> >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 5:04 PM, Tobias Bley <t...@ultramixer.com> wrote: >> I don’t understand why „all“ this people who needs JavaFX on iOS/Android >> does not tell it Oracles management. And I don’t understand why all this >> people use their time to develop all this demos and Rasp.PI stuff. Who needs >> it? Why don’t we develop base stuff like iOS skins, Android skins, >> iOS/Android widgets, RoboVM for Android, RoboVM using OpenJDK, … I really >> love useful stuff like the „JavaFX maven plugin“ or the „AquaFX“ project. >> That kind of development we need! >> >> Best, >> Tobi >> >> >> >>> Am 30.09.2013 um 08:50 schrieb Felix Bembrick <felix.bembr...@gmail.com>: >>> >>> No, you are *not* the only one. We *all* need it. In fact, without it >>> happening soon, JavaFX is already dead. >>> >>> But let's not give up yet. Perhaps it's closer than we know. I am a glass >>> half full kinda guy :-) >>> >>>> On 30 Sep 2013, at 16:40, Tobias Bley <t...@ultramixer.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> I suppose „legal reasons“…. >>>> >>>> For me it’s very frustrating to see every year the same procedure: >>>> JavaFX-iOS/Android related tracks were canceled - „nerd“ stuff like >>>> Rasp.PI, DukePad & Co were announced. Maybe I’m really the only one who >>>> needs JavaFX on mobile to use JavaFX on desktop as well… :( >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Am 29.09.2013 um 18:13 schrieb Jeff Martin <j...@reportmill.com>: >>>>> >>>>> It seems the JFX on iOS/Android were cancelled at the last moment. I >>>>> tried to keep expectations low this year, but I admit I harbored secret >>>>> hopes based on those sessions (a few embarrassingly optimistic >>>>> conversations with clients notwithstanding). >>>>> >>>>> Last week Tomas offered this: >>>>> >>>>>> about cancelled sessions please contact Mr. JavaOne >>>>>> stephen.c...@oracle.com I believe he will give satisfactory answer. >>>>> >>>>> I'd like to take him up on that satisfactory offer. Also, can we run the >>>>> name "DukePad" by marketing again? >>>>> >>>>> :-) >>>>> >>>>> jeff >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 29, 2013, at 12:12 AM, Daniel Zwolenski <zon...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> The sessions aren't up yet from the looks of it. It would be great to >>>>>> get an overall roundup of any new announcements or directions in any >>>>>> case. Given this is the developer community network it would make sense >>>>>> in my mind to highlight stuff like that in here. >>>>>> >>>>>> For me, I'd love it if someone could quickly sum up any announcements or >>>>>> sessions made about JavaFX for iOS, Android or in the deployment space? >>>>>> >>>>>> What happened at the sessions Tobi highlighted before >>>>>> (http://blog.software4java.com/?p=97), did anyone go to these and able >>>>>> to give us some info? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 27/09/2013, at 7:07 AM, Richard Bair <richard.b...@oracle.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The sessions, I think, are all being uploaded to Parley's >>>>>>> (http://www.parleys.com), although I don't see any content there yet >>>>>>> (not sure how long it will take them to post-process, but usually it is >>>>>>> pretty fast). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Richard >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sep 26, 2013, at 2:00 PM, Daniel Zwolenski <zon...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Has anyone done or seen any good roundups (text or video) of the >>>>>>>> JavaOne sessions relating to javafx? >
