On 10/07/2014 01:38 PM, Adam Young wrote:
> On 10/06/2014 05:28 PM, Anita Kuno wrote:
>> On 10/06/2014 04:11 PM, Adam Young wrote:
>>> On 10/06/2014 03:25 PM, Patricia Ellis wrote:
>>>> Hi Adam,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for taking the time to reply.
>>>>
>>>> I'm more of a web development type than security. I have some maths
>>>> background so perhaps something with data analysis.
>>>>
>>>> To date I have done mostly Java, some JavaScript, Html, and MySQL. I
>>>> am interested in learning Python. I co-developed a web app to check
>>>> and commit time-sheets to a database during my work experience this
>>>> summer; I did the database and the checking of the sheets. I, have
>>>> also, created an Android app to monitor the fuel consumption in
>>>> multiple vehicles, using the Android SQLite Database for storage.
>>>>
>>> I am looking to get someone to work on a Javascript based web client to
>>> replace Horizon.
>> Can I just say that I think using new people looking to have work
>> experience with OpenStack to further pet projects, without telling them
>> it is a pet project and not considered a project which others may
>> consider OpenStack to be not the best approach for encouraging new
>> people.
> Good points:
> 
>> Not knocking your project, Adam, since I know nothing about it, and this
>> isn't the first time I have seen this happen. But I do believe that
>> folks asking to help out with something are looking to gain transferable
>> skills so that they have something to offer a potential employeer who is
>> looking for work experience with OpenStack. That would be what I would
>> be looking for anyway.
> No offense taken.  I think you are looking out for the interest of the
> poster and people wityh similar interests.
Thanks for understanding, Adam.
> 
> I can verify how hard to cut off a chunk for a new developer:  I had an
> intern I was working with this summer.  Most of the time was spent on
> learning the development process.
Exactly! I think this is a very salient point which is missed both by
people in Patricia's situation as well as the ones who send them here.

>  It would not be appropriate for
> someone in Patricia's position to try and come in and get a bug fix
> through.
Now on this point, I'm going to disagree, simply because I don't have
enough information on what Patricia's position actually is. I can guess
but until I hear from Patricia herself, I'm just guessing and I would
much rather know. It was my desire to know more about Patricia's
position that motivated my suggestion she join irc and perhaps ask a few
questions, allowing others to ask questions of her.

When interacting with other folks who enter under similar circumstances,
my first question invariably is "What is your goal?". I truly hope
Patricia has something better than "to get a good mark" because folks
with that goal rarely interest me, but who knows. I haven't had the
chance to ask.

>  That limits the number of projects available.
Now here is where I would like to interact with program administrators
at institutions such as Patricia's to ask them why a project? We have
over 300 including stackforge, why task a student with starting their
own, why not encourage them to learn our development process which then
can enable them to work on any of the 300 in various stages of development.
> 
> 
> Typically, and internship or a senior project like this is the correct
> place for a proof of concept or side project.
Well I guess I would like to change things a bit and interact more
closely with institutions so they are encouraging students to mix it up
with the rest of us (reviewing for marks, that appeals to me) rather
than working on their own on the side. They get what the prof wanted but
they don't get as much as they could get for their time in terms of what
would be useful after they get that rolled up piece of paper secured
with a ribbon. Also there are hiring managers afoot in them thar hills
masquerading as devs, who knows what might happen if you actually work
with them for 3 - 6 weeks what fate might bestow on you.

>  The project can be done
> with a focus more on functionality and less on stability.
> 
> 
> We should come up with a published list of "intern and senior projects
> proposals"
I agree that is would be helpful, not only to students, but also to
OpenStack to have a published list of endpoints (whatever they may be)
that allows newcomers to be productive while getting what they need to
show off to evaluators while also growing skills that will be useful to
them long term. Having them learn how to do work that benefits Openstack
(how about reviews?) wouldn't hurt us either.

Thanks Adam,
Anita.

> 
>> New people have no idea what are considered transferable skills within
>> OpenStack unless we tell them.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Anita.
>>
>>>   There has been some work along these lines already.
>>>
>>> Beyond that, most of the projects I have are Python based Keystone
>>> features.  You can see the kinds of things I am considering here:
>>>
>>> https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/keystone-specs+owner:%22ayoung+%253Cayoung%2540redhat.com%253E%22,n,z
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6 October 2014 18:37, Adam Young <ayo...@redhat.com
>>>> <mailto:ayo...@redhat.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>      On 10/06/2014 01:14 PM, Patricia Ellis wrote:
>>>>>      My name is Patricia Ellis, I am a fourth year software
>>>>>      development student at Cork Institute of Technology. I am looking
>>>>>      for ideas for my final year project. I have six weeks to get my
>>>>>      proposal together and then 13 weeks to implement it. I am hoping
>>>>>      you might have a suitable project on your wish list, one which is
>>>>>      of the ”low hanging fruit” variety as my time frame is tight.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>      _______________________________________________
>>>>>      OpenStack-dev mailing list
>>>>>      OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org
>>>>> <mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
>>>>>      http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
>>>>      Patricia,
>>>>
>>>>      I am Keystone core developer.  I have several ideas.   It really
>>>>      depends on your skills and interests.
>>>>
>>>>      Are you a security person?
>>>>
>>>>      If not,  are you a web development type person?
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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