Ah, ok, just comparing now. I added this pdtk_canvas-getscroll to Pd- extended 0.42.5-2009-11-12. We currently have four to compare: Ico's, Pd, Pd-extended, and Pd-Gui-Rewrite.

- Pd-extended will correctly handle the scrollbars if you select some objects and move them with Shift-arrow, the other three do not (some better than others)

- when you select all and mouse drag components out of the current view, Pd-extended updates scrollbars immediately, Pd and Pd-devel update the scrollbars once you release the mouse, and Ico's gave me an error saying "Error: can't read "::scroll(.x6d5610)"

- when you resize the window, Pd-devel updates the scrollbars live, Pd- extended updates live with glitches, Pd updates on release, Ico's gave me an error saying "Error: can't read "::scroll(.x6d5610)"


On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:17 AM, Miller Puckette wrote:

I think it's only in the e-mail:


On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:12:50AM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

On Oct 31, 2009, at 9:41 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:

3) 0 0 coordinate-centric design IMHO does not make sense. From
historical perspective, old patches should still TTBOMK open just
Yet, if 0 0 approach is still imposed, it results in unintuitive
behavior of scrollbars. e.g. try the following on 0.43 (or previous
versions without the suggested patch):

create an object->create another object and slide it to the right
it goes outside the canvas area->a horizontal scrollbar will indicate
there is more stuff to the right->scroll to the right and at this
you may find both of your objects (effectively your whole patch)
the canvas, yet the scrollbar will suggest there is something to the
left when there isn't.

After testing this a bit more, here's a small correction. My
implementation does pack everything to the right or the left depending
upon where the whole canvas is located in respect to the 0 0 coord.
does not however affect older patches. That said, I still feel this is
more desirable and ultimately can be further adjusted as necessary.

Best wishes,


I wanted to try this now that I have a moment, but I couldn't find the
patch. Did you add it to the patch tracker?



Computer science is no more related to the computer than astronomy is
related to the telescope.      -Edsger Dykstra

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